Team Charity

[Rain King]

You have an option to turn the feature off and you can also customize the storylines that are available. This thread, in general, seems like an overreaction.

[Brad K]

Why should the user have to turn off storylines because of one that doesn't work? Storylines are supposed to be fluff but this affects the game, apparently regardless of what the user does.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Why should the user have to turn off storylines because of one that doesn't work? Storylines are supposed to be fluff but this affects the game, apparently regardless of what the user does.

You can edit storylines. Apparently it’s working as intended. Just edit it if you disagree.

[LeftHandPath]

Does anybody know the effects of the other options when it comes to the charity event (donation / no donation)?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

You can edit storylines. Apparently it’s working as intended. Just edit it if you disagree.

Good idea.

[Boomcoach]

Originally Posted by Rain King

You have an option to turn the feature off and you can also customize the storylines that are available. This thread, in general, seems like an overreaction.

Speaking only for myself, my "WHAT" reaction to the thread is because I usually support the charities and assumed that the cost was simply a cash cost. I had no idea that this was having such a drastic effect on my overall situation.

What are the ramifications of turning down the request?

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Boomcoach

Speaking only for myself, my "WHAT" reaction to the thread is because I usually support the charities and assumed that the cost was simply a cash cost. I had no idea that this was having such a drastic effect on my overall situation.

What are the ramifications of turning down the request?

From post 18 I'm guessing nothing. Or maybe its the same.

[NeuroticTruth]

The are two large problems here that stand out:

1) You cant touch finances? Why? It seems pretty simple to just add it as a misc. expense. If I can go into the settings and add misc expenses myself, why cant an in game story line.

2) Its concerning that you feel a hit to market size is a good way to "penalize" gaining 10 fan interest and 1 loyalty. The loss in market size is VASTLY more damaging to the team then any positive affect the interest and loyalty could have.


Imo, Matt's response is alarming and somewhat telling. It speaks volumes to how disconnected the developers seem to be from the game outside of Perfect Team.

[hefalumps]

This explains a lot. I've started two charities for my players and was always trying to figure out how much it was costing me. I'd monitor the finances daily and never saw anything coming out.

It wasn't until some point in the future that I noticed my market size had decreased considerably. I never connected the two events.

I guess I could have just looked at the storyline and found out.

I have to agree with most everyone here - I think that the hit to market size is a strong penalty and should at least be explained in the storyline so that the OOTP player knows what he's accepting when he says yes. That, or maybe OOTP 22 allows storylines to have access to finances. Although that could open up another can of worms (like storylines where owners invest in a Ponzi scheme...)

I guess next time I'll just tell the player no. But I'll have to look at the storyline now - do you risk angering the player if you don't start the charity?

EDIT: I just checked, the player doesn't get angry, but you take a -2 hit in fan interest and -1 in fan loyalty. Ouch.

I checked for storylines that improve market_size - there aren't many. There are a few different "World Series win/President calls/visits" storylines, but only one of them improves market size. There's also one where the owner invests in nearby property. That's all I could find (but I'm still using OOTP 20).

[Roggie]

This is just dumb, IMO. Makes zero sense that starting a charity would ruin market size. That's a giant penalty compared to what you gain.

Matt's response is definitely not what I want to see, either. Just reads as a "well, we don't have it coded in to do this so we chose this instead" even though logically the choice made makes zero sense.

[sirotka33]

Originally Posted by NeuroticTruth

The loss in market size is VASTLY more damaging to the team then any positive affect the interest and loyalty could have.


Imo, Matt's response is alarming and somewhat telling. It speaks volumes to how disconnected the developers seem to be from the game outside of Perfect Team.

do you even know what market size actually affects? it's on a 1-20 scale and it's a few million in local media revenue for each point ultimately ranging in ~20 million for the lowest and ~85 million for a 20. -1 to market size is ultimately about 5 million per season in lost revenue. that is it. the +10 to interest and +1 to loyalty are very good rewards compared to that.

[Matt Arnold]

The next time we make some major changes to the storyline engine to expand on what can happen as a result of the storyline, I'm more than happy to make changes to better reflect things. I agree it would make more sense as a pure cash effect, but since it definitely feels like a storyline that needs some sort of penalty, that's the only one that really makes sense given the framework we have right now.

[CBeisbol]

.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

The next time we make some major changes to the storyline engine to expand on what can happen as a result of the storyline, I'm more than happy to make changes to better reflect things. I agree it would make more sense as a pure cash effect, but since it definitely feels like a storyline that needs some sort of penalty, that's the only one that really makes sense given the framework we have right now.

Thanks for the explanations. I understand why you did what you did.

HOWEVER:

This gets to the heart of all the reasons finances in OOTP don't make any sense compared to the real world. The financial statement system in OOTP needs a total overhaul to even come close to the way financial matters work in the real worlds of people, corporations and governments.

This example highlights the problems/issues that come from not including taxes in the game's financial statements. Corporations make charitable donations largely because they can deduct them and save on consolidated income tax returns. Which, of course, does not happen in OOTP.

To be clear, including taxes in OOTP is an unnecessary idea. However, OOTP also overlooks the main financial reason owners have gotten involved over the years and that reason is that player salaries and expenses can be deducted on a consolidated corporate tax return and thereby produce real cash in situations that OOTP shows as loosing money.

Add in the absurd way owners increase budgets and then require you to end with a cash balance higher than you started with, and you get to the current state of confusion and poor results.

Anyway, that's my semi-annual appeal for a financial overhaul in OOTP.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

Thanks for the explanations. I understand why you did what you did.

HOWEVER:

This gets to the heart of all the reasons finances in OOTP don't make any sense compared to the real world. The financial statement system in OOTP needs a total overhaul to even come close to the way financial matters work in the real worlds of people, corporations and governments.

This example highlights the problems/issues that come from not including taxes in the game's financial statements. Corporations make charitable donations largely because they can deduct them and save on consolidated income tax returns. Which, of course, does not happen in OOTP.

To be clear, including taxes in OOTP is an unnecessary idea. However, OOTP also overlooks the main financial reason owners have gotten involved over the years and that reason is that player salaries and expenses can be deducted on a consolidated corporate tax return and thereby produce real cash in situations that OOTP shows as loosing money.

Add in the absurd way owners increase budgets and then require you to end with a cash balance higher than you started with, and you get to the current state of confusion and poor results.

Anyway, that's my semi-annual appeal for a financial overhaul in OOTP.

I’m craving a financial overhaul.

[NeuroticTruth]

Originally Posted by sirotka33

do you even know what market size actually affects? it's on a 1-20 scale and it's a few million in local media revenue for each point ultimately ranging in ~20 million for the lowest and ~85 million for a 20. -1 to market size is ultimately about 5 million per season in lost revenue. that is it. the +10 to interest and +1 to loyalty are very good rewards compared to that.

That is an extreme over simplification of market size. Market size plays a part in a large number of things in relation to revenue, attendance, budget size, player interest / resigning, the list goes on. Not to mention, above all else, its by far the hardest thing to improve upon of the three mentioned.

[NeuroticTruth]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I’m craving a financial overhaul.

The game is in desperate need of one. I cant tell you how many online leagues circumvent it in some ways if not remove it completely.

[getheroff]

This has been a problem for awhile now. I addressed this problem in the thread below:

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=309652

I followed my heart and set up the charity. The player did sign up to a sweetheart deal and my team did get a short term boost to fan interest and fan loyalty. But my market size did shrink and this far outweighed the short term benefits described above. Three years later in my dynasty and I am still trying to undo the damage that setting up the charity has done to my finances.

Now another one of my players has approached me for setting up another charity. I was searching around in the forums to remind myself not to make the same mistake and see what would be the most intelligent choice. All of the choices seem to be a loser for a small market team.

This storyline is utterly broken. It destroys immersion...and I say that as someone who has invested thousands of hours into my Challenge-mode Twins dynasty. The consequences of these choices absolutely need to be explained in more detail, so you can make an intelligent decision. And there should be a neutral choice where you can donate a few bucks and get a small, short-term increase in fan interest and no long-term (unexplained) financial destruction.

Please fix this ASAP.

[hefalumps]

Just had a *third* player ask me to start a charity... my market size is already "Below average" from the last two charities I started, and the player is just a fringe MR who is already 32 - he's locally Well Known but otherwise no huge loss.

I'm thinking about either trading or DFAing him. But I'm worried the charity storyline will still be tied to me even if I get rid of him and I'll get hit with the penalty of not starting one.

Good thing I've got commissioner mode to edit whatever happens... hope storylines and/or finances are getting some attention in OOTP22!

[Ace1234NY]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Just had a *third* player ask me to start a charity... my market size is already "Below average" from the last two charities I started, and the player is just a fringe MR who is already 32 - he's locally Well Known but otherwise no huge loss.

I'm thinking about either trading or DFAing him. But I'm worried the charity storyline will still be tied to me even if I get rid of him and I'll get hit with the penalty of not starting one.

Good thing I've got commissioner mode to edit whatever happens... hope storylines and/or finances are getting some attention in OOTP22!

I would just commish edit those changes and delete the event from the storylines file, so it doesn't happen to any team again. That's what I did. You can find it in the storyline file by searching "charity" and going thru the hits til you see this event. Just delete the whole thing being careful not to mess with any of the surrounding events. That should be the end of it.