WHA - NHL merger really don't work 100%

clamel · 08-10-2020, 12:54 PM

I started a historical save with FHM5 as the GM for Winnipeg Jets in WHA 1975.
I got just prior to the merger with FHM5, saved on 1st July and made the shift to FHM6. Work very nice (I think)
What came up when the date of merger came was disturbing. For me as a GM I got an expansion the week before the merger and was stunned when me, the coaches and all the players was out in the cold.
All the teams that made it into NHL was empty before the expansion draft.
I did not go ahead to the expansion draft since I know that it was several complicating stuff in this merger and I don't expect everything should be 100% in FHM6. BUT surely I should be with the team that just days before gave me an extension and I was surprised that not a single player was protected on my roster.
I think I read that rules for expansion was somewhere and I think maybe I missed those. Not sure how to find them.

Bottom line is the scare that if I am a GM on a team that changes city and names, Winnipeg Jets did to Arizona and becoming Coyotes.
Will I be ditched on that too ? Will the players all end up as FA ?

A bit concerned for a lengthy save over the years.

Adam B · 08-10-2020, 02:21 PM

I think you're mistaken on how the WHA-NHL merger worked.

It wasn't so much a merger as a Hostile Takeover. The WHA couldn't survive, but the NHL wasn't going to let teams come in a essentially be better than half or more of the NHL teams already. So teams that had claims on players (ie: drafted or rights held), reverted back to their NHL teams. WHA teams were allowed to protect 2 players, and a couple of side agreements (like Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe) were made.

But all-in-all, each team was robbed of their players, and then to top if off the NHL gave them the last 4 selections in the the entry draft rounds. It became who could rebuild the fastest. Had Hull not been injured and 40+ (I think he played like 14 games for the Jets in the NHL? - Still bugs me that Arizona retired his number for this reason...especially since the NHL likes to pretend the WHA didn't exist), maybe the Jets could have become better faster.

But alas, the Merger/Expansion/Takeover was unique and likely won't happen again. Firing everyone is the easiest way to replicate it, and you can sign 2 of your players I believe.

Argonaut · 08-10-2020, 03:44 PM

One way you might want to do it is play out the WHA years in one save, then start a whole new save after the 1979 merger. Starting a franchise in 1979-80 works quite well in FHM, I'm doing it with the Whalers.

Yeah you'll lose your team history and stats, but it'll be in your own memory, and you can always keep the file to go back and look if you want.

clamel · 08-12-2020, 06:08 PM

Well, I know it wasn't directly a merger, but still I'm certain I read that it should work in this game. At least some part of it.

More concern that when "normal" NHL team moves to a new city and even rename themselve the same thing might occur.

It is kind of weird that the team offered a prolonged contract just 1 week prior. Losing all players and coaches in the "hostile" takeover might be the same in other cases further down the years.

For historical replays this got to work better.
It can't be to difficult to permit some players to stay with protection like when a new team comes into the league.

At least something to work on for the developers to get the game even better.

Adam B · 08-12-2020, 07:49 PM

That's not how it works. Each expansion period in historical mode reflects just how it was in real life. The game doesn't change randomly. Historical mode does it's absolute best to reflect what happened in real life...really in all aspects of the game.

clamel · 08-25-2020, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam B

That's not how it works. Each expansion period in historical mode reflects just how it was in real life. The game doesn't change randomly. Historical mode does it's absolute best to reflect what happened in real life...really in all aspects of the game.

How it works ? The league move teams in historical mode the correct way I'm certain off, but the question is what happens to GM,coaches,players ? This critical year I played as a GM in Wiinnipeg Jets was when the merger (or whatever one calls it) of WHA to NHL. The WHA teams got stripped of everything, GM,coaches and players. That's what I was taking about. That doesn't reflect what went on. My concern then was how will the game handle the historical moves of team in the years to come in my save ?

Who talked about randomly ?
What did happen in this save was not what happened in real life with WHA teams moving over to NHL.

My basic quesyion was if I missed out in some rule edit as a commis that would have made it more correct. Like further down the road how many players each team can protect when new teams pop up.

I can't find all these rules, so that's what I liked to have a look at.

JeffR · 08-27-2020, 03:45 AM

You will not lose your job when a team moves. The 1979 expansion is a special case because the entire WHA shuts down, and the 4 new NHL teams are considered new entities, separate from the WHA versions of the teams.

The 1979 expansion process does allow those teams to retain the NHL rights to any of their WHA players whose NHL rights were not already owned (as well as some Birmingham and Cincinnati players), which is a reasonable approximation of what actually happened; if you check their protected lists on July 1, you'll see those players.

clamel · 09-01-2020, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

You will not lose your job when a team moves. The 1979 expansion is a special case because the entire WHA shuts down, and the 4 new NHL teams are considered new entities, separate from the WHA versions of the teams.

The 1979 expansion process does allow those teams to retain the NHL rights to any of their WHA players whose NHL rights were not already owned (as well as some Birmingham and Cincinnati players), which is a reasonable approximation of what actually happened; if you check their protected lists on July 1, you'll see those players.

In the WHA takeover I did lose my job, but maybe it works better in "normal" move of teams to different cities and even if they are renamed.
Got a bit pissed on the reason. After winning the WHA title in 2 of 3 years you can read what they said of my managing.

My bad on that protection list. Since I was unemployed in the new restart in FHM6 I never saw what went on. This time I inserted myself back as the manager for Jets and got the process of the protection list.
I couldn't complain since what I remember of that takeover the old WHA teams had far fewer players on their list. Guess this rule now in the takeover was based on the "normal" protection number NHL teams having.
So if one reinstate oneself after that surprised firemessage it looks to work OK. Not 100% but good enough.

08-10-2020, 12:54 PM	#1
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,042	WHA - NHL merger really don't work 100% I started a historical save with FHM5 as the GM for Winnipeg Jets in WHA 1975. I got just prior to the merger with FHM5, saved on 1st July and made the shift to FHM6. Work very nice (I think) What came up when the date of merger came was disturbing. For me as a GM I got an expansion the week before the merger and was stunned when me, the coaches and all the players was out in the cold. All the teams that made it into NHL was empty before the expansion draft. I did not go ahead to the expansion draft since I know that it was several complicating stuff in this merger and I don't expect everything should be 100% in FHM6. BUT surely I should be with the team that just days before gave me an extension and I was surprised that not a single player was protected on my roster. I think I read that rules for expansion was somewhere and I think maybe I missed those. Not sure how to find them. Bottom line is the scare that if I am a GM on a team that changes city and names, Winnipeg Jets did to Arizona and becoming Coyotes. Will I be ditched on that too ? Will the players all end up as FA ? A bit concerned for a lengthy save over the years.

08-10-2020, 03:44 PM	#3
Argonaut All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 1,085	One way you might want to do it is play out the WHA years in one save, then start a whole new save after the 1979 merger. Starting a franchise in 1979-80 works quite well in FHM, I'm doing it with the Whalers. Yeah you'll lose your team history and stats, but it'll be in your own memory, and you can always keep the file to go back and look if you want. __________________ Texas Rangers Dynasty (Est. 1972) Hartford Whalers Dynasty: Brass Bonanza

08-10-2020, 02:21 PM	#2
Adam B Hockey Community Manager Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: A Hockey Rink Posts: 2,605	I think you're mistaken on how the WHA-NHL merger worked. It wasn't so much a merger as a Hostile Takeover. The WHA couldn't survive, but the NHL wasn't going to let teams come in a essentially be better than half or more of the NHL teams already. So teams that had claims on players (ie: drafted or rights held), reverted back to their NHL teams. WHA teams were allowed to protect 2 players, and a couple of side agreements (like Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe) were made. But all-in-all, each team was robbed of their players, and then to top if off the NHL gave them the last 4 selections in the the entry draft rounds. It became who could rebuild the fastest. Had Hull not been injured and 40+ (I think he played like 14 games for the Jets in the NHL? - Still bugs me that Arizona retired his number for this reason...especially since the NHL likes to pretend the WHA didn't exist), maybe the Jets could have become better faster. But alas, the Merger/Expansion/Takeover was unique and likely won't happen again. Firing everyone is the easiest way to replicate it, and you can sign 2 of your players I believe.

08-12-2020, 06:08 PM	#4
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,042	Well, I know it wasn't directly a merger, but still I'm certain I read that it should work in this game. At least some part of it. More concern that when "normal" NHL team moves to a new city and even rename themselve the same thing might occur. It is kind of weird that the team offered a prolonged contract just 1 week prior. Losing all players and coaches in the "hostile" takeover might be the same in other cases further down the years. For historical replays this got to work better. It can't be to difficult to permit some players to stay with protection like when a new team comes into the league. At least something to work on for the developers to get the game even better.

08-12-2020, 07:49 PM	#5
Adam B Hockey Community Manager Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: A Hockey Rink Posts: 2,605	That's not how it works. Each expansion period in historical mode reflects just how it was in real life. The game doesn't change randomly. Historical mode does it's absolute best to reflect what happened in real life...really in all aspects of the game.

08-27-2020, 03:45 AM	#7
JeffR FHM Producer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 17,432	You will not lose your job when a team moves. The 1979 expansion is a special case because the entire WHA shuts down, and the 4 new NHL teams are considered new entities, separate from the WHA versions of the teams. The 1979 expansion process does allow those teams to retain the NHL rights to any of their WHA players whose NHL rights were not already owned (as well as some Birmingham and Cincinnati players), which is a reasonable approximation of what actually happened; if you check their protected lists on July 1, you'll see those players.