Very High Bullpen ERA and Not Enough Relief Pitchers On Roster - Page 2

manooly · 08-19-2020, 08:03 AM

Also, another strange thing is that these teams with high bullpen ERAs only have 3 or 4 active relief pitchers. Never seen this before. They are all exhausted and continue to be put in the games and getting clobbered.

Rain King · 08-19-2020, 09:13 AM

An option you have to combat their pitching when exhausted is to allow "Ghost Players". That won't fix the issue with the number of pitchers on the roster, but the AI shouldn't use them when exhausted.

Matt Arnold · 08-19-2020, 10:05 AM

The AI isn't super aggressive at filling out low minors, especially when they have 30+ players on the roster already (and even 8 pitchers shouldn't be an issue, although it's a cascading effect once they start to redline, they will keep getting more and more tired).

One potential simple workaround would be to increase the stamina settings for the league to help those teams out a little bit.

Trying to remember back, but not having a draft might also be part of the issues. I think it's set up so that those scouting discoveries do tend to be batter-heavy, since traditionally in MLB that's how things have worked in the past. And given that pitchers I believe also tend to be a little slower to develop, that might also explain why teams aren't promoting players out of the international complex at a fast rate.

Rain King · 08-19-2020, 10:23 AM

In the example league I uploaded I do have Pitcher Dev. Speed upped to 1.150 as that was one of the things I definitely noticed.

I thought it was the International Amateur FA's that were skewed to hitters, not the Scouting Discoveries. I have the IAFA's turned off for this league...there seem to be plenty of pitchers that are getting discovered and the Prospect Pipeline seems to have an expected distribution.

I'm going to further pump up the Pitcher Dev. Speed to see if that helps.

Matt Arnold · 08-19-2020, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

In the example league I uploaded I do have Pitcher Dev. Speed upped to 1.150 as that was one of the things I definitely noticed.

I thought it was the International Amateur FA's that were skewed to hitters, not the Scouting Discoveries. I have the IAFA's turned off for this league...there seem to be plenty of pitchers that are getting discovered and the Prospect Pipeline seems to have an expected distribution.

I'm going to further pump up the Pitcher Dev. Speed to see if that helps.

Ah yeah, sorry, was getting confused between IAFA and discoveries for a second.

Are your other minor leagues having about the right mix of pitchers?

Rain King · 08-19-2020, 11:37 AM

Yes, the other levels seem to follow the AI Roster Settings very closely.

Rain King · 08-19-2020, 01:50 PM

I also feel like there is an issue with Relative Ratings (Overall and Potential) at the lower levels. Here is a guy that is still in the International Complex. His individual ratings clearly show he should be ready for the Rookie level, but his Overall rating relative to the rookie league remains a 20.

http://snpy.in/rrphMV

Rain King · 08-19-2020, 01:52 PM

Also, the individual pitch ratings don't budge when I switch the Relative Ratings option back to the Top League.

http://snpy.in/heZUxL

Matt Arnold · 08-19-2020, 02:35 PM

Dug into this a little more, I would agree that the AI is definitely slow at signing minor leaguers, so should have a couple tweaks for the next patch to help fill their deep minors teams more.

For those relative ratings issues, I don't believe pitches individually are ever changed (ie. they always display as "raw" values). The other cases will depend heavily on the leagues themselves. Depending on the league setup and averages, it can cause issues. Especially if this is the same setup where teams are short on pitchers, it might be throwing off the game calculated average ratings.

manooly · 08-21-2020, 07:52 AM

Not sure if this helps or not but when I create my fictional league I do NOT use any minor leagues. I still see only 3 or 4 relievers on a handful of teams that are exhausted. Thx so much for looking into this! Let me know if you need any more details about my 30 team fictional league setup.

- manooly

Lukas Berger · 08-21-2020, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manooly

Not sure if this helps or not but when I create my fictional league I do NOT use any minor leagues. I still see only 3 or 4 relievers on a handful of teams that are exhausted. Thx so much for looking into this! Let me know if you need any more details about my 30 team fictional league setup.

- manooly

How many free agent relief pitchers do you have available in that league?

manooly · 08-21-2020, 09:00 AM

I'm at work now but I'll look later for sure!

manooly · 08-25-2020, 10:38 AM

Sorry for the delayed response. There are a ton of relief pitchers in the free agent pool. I simulated the entire season because I don't think this is a league that I'm going to keep based on the ERA numbers but as the season progressed it looks like the rosters on all the teams corrected themselves. There's only 1 team with 4 relievers at the end of the season and the bullpen ERA got a little better as the season progressed. Very strange....

08-19-2020, 08:03 AM	#21
manooly Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 315	Also, another strange thing is that these teams with high bullpen ERAs only have 3 or 4 active relief pitchers. Never seen this before. They are all exhausted and continue to be put in the games and getting clobbered.

08-19-2020, 09:13 AM	#22
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,948	An option you have to combat their pitching when exhausted is to allow "Ghost Players". That won't fix the issue with the number of pitchers on the roster, but the AI shouldn't use them when exhausted.

08-19-2020, 10:05 AM	#23
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,539	The AI isn't super aggressive at filling out low minors, especially when they have 30+ players on the roster already (and even 8 pitchers shouldn't be an issue, although it's a cascading effect once they start to redline, they will keep getting more and more tired). One potential simple workaround would be to increase the stamina settings for the league to help those teams out a little bit. Trying to remember back, but not having a draft might also be part of the issues. I think it's set up so that those scouting discoveries do tend to be batter-heavy, since traditionally in MLB that's how things have worked in the past. And given that pitchers I believe also tend to be a little slower to develop, that might also explain why teams aren't promoting players out of the international complex at a fast rate.

08-19-2020, 10:23 AM	#24
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,948	In the example league I uploaded I do have Pitcher Dev. Speed upped to 1.150 as that was one of the things I definitely noticed. I thought it was the International Amateur FA's that were skewed to hitters, not the Scouting Discoveries. I have the IAFA's turned off for this league...there seem to be plenty of pitchers that are getting discovered and the Prospect Pipeline seems to have an expected distribution. I'm going to further pump up the Pitcher Dev. Speed to see if that helps.

08-19-2020, 11:37 AM	#26
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,948	Yes, the other levels seem to follow the AI Roster Settings very closely.

08-19-2020, 01:50 PM	#27
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,948	I also feel like there is an issue with Relative Ratings (Overall and Potential) at the lower levels. Here is a guy that is still in the International Complex. His individual ratings clearly show he should be ready for the Rookie level, but his Overall rating relative to the rookie league remains a 20. http://snpy.in/rrphMV

08-19-2020, 01:52 PM	#28
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,948	Also, the individual pitch ratings don't budge when I switch the Relative Ratings option back to the Top League. http://snpy.in/heZUxL

08-19-2020, 02:35 PM	#29
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,539	Dug into this a little more, I would agree that the AI is definitely slow at signing minor leaguers, so should have a couple tweaks for the next patch to help fill their deep minors teams more. For those relative ratings issues, I don't believe pitches individually are ever changed (ie. they always display as "raw" values). The other cases will depend heavily on the leagues themselves. Depending on the league setup and averages, it can cause issues. Especially if this is the same setup where teams are short on pitchers, it might be throwing off the game calculated average ratings.

08-21-2020, 07:52 AM	#30
manooly Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 315	Not sure if this helps or not but when I create my fictional league I do NOT use any minor leagues. I still see only 3 or 4 relievers on a handful of teams that are exhausted. Thx so much for looking into this! Let me know if you need any more details about my 30 team fictional league setup. - manooly

08-21-2020, 09:00 AM	#32
manooly Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 315	I'm at work now but I'll look later for sure!

08-25-2020, 10:38 AM	#33
manooly Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 315	Sorry for the delayed response. There are a ton of relief pitchers in the free agent pool. I simulated the entire season because I don't think this is a league that I'm going to keep based on the ERA numbers but as the season progressed it looks like the rosters on all the teams corrected themselves. There's only 1 team with 4 relievers at the end of the season and the bullpen ERA got a little better as the season progressed. Very strange....