"And the ball popped out of his glove!"

[mytreds]

I'm surprised no one has asked "What are your player's defensive ratings?". That'd be a start. Then "What are their defensive stats?". Aside from a few things that can be overlooked because in the long term they don't really matter, this game does a pretty decent job at simulating real life. Outfielders drop balls from time to time. Sun in their eyes, pressure to make a throw, twilight/lights fooling them, etc. Hunter Pence lost a ball in the sky a couple of days ago, ruining a No-No for Cueto. **** happens.

[Brad K]

I guess everyone except you assumed reasonable defensive ratings. Good observation. I suppose its possible a guy would put Dick Stuart equivalents at every position then complain the game is screwing up his fielding..

[Will_L]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YB6OFVSVVk
I'm pretty sure that it's quite a bit more than three per team per season.

[Brad K]

And that video is only "(Part 1)".

[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Or else produce data that indicate that 3-5 dropped fly balls per outfielder per season is some extraordinarily bad number. I imagine that if you, like, showed that MLB has had 6 muffed flies in the past 5 years (I’m making up those numbers) that, coupled with your observation, would probably be enough to convince someone to tweak something. “It makes me feel sad” isn’t going to be enough, however.

seen someone in an online debate indicate that they were making numbers up for the sake of rhetoric. Kudos!!!

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

The problem, if there is one, is that OOTP probably doesn't know what kind of errors OFers make. They can drop flyballs/line drives, they can make throwing errors and they can misplay ground balls. If OOTP doesn't know the correct proportions of those errors then it may produce too many (or two few) of the balls popping out of the glove type and not enough of the other types

Which is why telling users to collect data is important

Also, I believe that there is an element of how the pbp works with actual results? The "dice roll" is producing the OF error and the associated results (baserunner advancement, etc.). The pbp is then associated, not really knowing (I don't think) whether the error was actually a "dropped" fly. Its painting a picture. It is not a photograph.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Also, I believe that there is an element of how the pbp works with actual results? The "dice roll" is producing the OF error and the associated results (baserunner advancement, etc.). The pbp is then associated, not really knowing (I don't think) whether the error was actually a "dropped" fly. Its painting a picture. Not a photograph.

Why would anyone paint a photograph?

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Also, I believe that there is an element of how the pbp works with actual results? The "dice roll" is producing the OF error and the associated results (baserunner advancement, etc.). The pbp is then associated, not really knowing (I don't think) whether the error was actually a "dropped" fly. Its painting a picture. Not a photograph.

Sorta

But a dropped fly doesn't count as a hit

So, if the game is indifferent between OFers dropping balls and other types of OF errors, it's costing a few hits

Originally Posted by Questdog

Why would anyone paint a photograph?

Art
http://www.alternativephotography.co...g-photographs/

[kriscolic]

Originally Posted by Sweed

What makes you think all of the other teams are dropping fly balls at the same rate as yours? You'd have to watch all of their games too to see this, maybe you are? I don't know. If not it could just be your team. You may have run into a bad run of "dice rolls". Is your opponent also dropping fly balls too? IE are you seeing 6-10 drops per season in the games you play? If not that suggests it's your outfielders or a string of bad luck, I think. How many seasons has this happened? There are thousand of users, playing hundreds of thousands of seasons in OOTP. I think one could argue if one user saw this over a few seasons it could still be chalked up to bad luck.

I see nobody else coming in and saying "I see the same thing in my leagues". I can tell you I play out all of my games and have not noticed this (more at the end of the post). It could be as simple as your leagues settings. Have you autocalced your league total modifiers? They control errors by position along with many other things. I suppose one possibility is the game gets OF error numbers right but has the ratio of drops to mishandled after it hits the ground, resulting in base runners advancing, wrong. The trouble is if Markus reduces drops based on one user seeing too many he reduces drops for everyone even though nobody else has reported the issue (to my knowledge) independently or come into this thread to say "I see it in my game too".

No you do not have to do any research but keep in mind that, while Markus is open minded and will make changes based on user input, he will, in my experience, not do it on someone's impressions based on no data and small sample sizes. And that is a good thing.

The good of this thread is it will plant a seed in the mind of some of us that play out games to be watchful for OF drops. You are right it is a rare thing in real life. It could be because of this rarity I have missed seeing "too many" in my games I play out. That however is my impression and not based on data. Could be looking for it now will show me I was wrong

I've completed three seasons, playing out every game at bat by at bat. Yes, I'm seeing it happen with my opponents as well, again in the 3-5 times per season range. And yes, I am making a note of it each time it happens, so that number isn't based on "feel". I'm not playing outfielders out of position or anything like that. For goodness sake Carlos Beltran dropped two in a season! On the other hand, I can only recall my outfielders making throwing errors or overrunning balls a handful of times. I would expect this to be far more common.

I dunno. Maybe my settings are goofed up; I don't mess with them because I don't really understand what effects they have.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Why would anyone paint a photograph?

Touché?

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Sorta

But a dropped fly doesn't count as a hit

So, if the game is indifferent between OFers dropping balls and other types of OF errors, it's costing a few hits

I'm understanding this differently. I believe that the "dropped ball" is simply a pbp description applied to game generated results. The game engine is not establishing the error as a dropped fly, rather simply an error. So I don't think the batter is being deprived of a hit.

[kriscolic]

Originally Posted by Will_L

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YB6OFVSVVk
I'm pretty sure that it's quite a bit more than three per team per season.

No idea if that's comprehensive, but since you cited it...

That actually illustrates my point. I count 10 balls in that video dropped by outfielders (we're only talking about outfielders here) that weren't attributable to an impending collision. If we choose to be charitable and hand wave away those as well, that ups my count to 16.

There doesn't appear to be a part 2.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

I'm understanding this differently. I believe that the "dropped ball" is simply a pbp description applied to game generated results. The game engine is not establishing the error as a dropped fly, rather simply an error. So I don't think the batter is being deprived of a hit.

Well, you are entirely mistaken. The errors in question are balls that the official scorer has determined should have been caught but were not. No hit is awarded on the play. The OP is contesting the PbP description's accuracy, which is extreme nitpicking in my opinion. The player should have caught the ball and did not and was charged with an error. Whether the ball "popped out of his glove" or hit off the heel, or bounced off his nose is just flavor text.....

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Well, you are entirely mistaken. The errors in question are balls that the official scorer has determined should have been caught but were not. No hit is awarded on the play. The OP is contesting the PbP description's accuracy, which is extreme nitpicking in my opinion. The player should have caught the ball and did not and was charged with an error. Whether the ball "popped out of his glove" or hit off the heel, or bounced off his nose is just flavor text.....

I guess I was mistaken. I had not realized the Markus and his crew had coded an official scorer into the game.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by kriscolic

I dunno. Maybe my settings are goofed up; I don't mess with them because I don't really understand what effects they have.

You should autocalc your stats on opening day, before any games are played(the option disappears once a game is played in the regular season). There is nothing to screw up, OOTP simply sims three seasons in the background and from that sets up your league total modifiers for you.

Autocalc will set modifiers for each OF position, IE in my league they are LF: 1.114, CF: .764, RF: .939. So they can range quite a bit and also keep in mind my settings will not work in your league as our player ratings mix will certainly be different.

Looking through my league, 95 games in for my team with others in close proximity as the all-star game is coming up in 2 days. My club has committed 10 OF errors while randomly looking at other teams they run from around 4 to 10 (did not look at all of them). Of course no way to know how many are drops.

Looking at your total numbers and LTM's is at least a place to start to try to figure out if it's just your game. If your total OF errors are very high then it might follow that drops may be a reflection of that?

Originally Posted by kriscolic

No idea if that's comprehensive, but since you cited it...

That actually illustrates my point. I count 10 balls in that video dropped by outfielders (we're only talking about outfielders here) that weren't attributable to an impending collision. If we choose to be charitable and hand wave away those as well, that ups my count to 16.

There doesn't appear to be a part 2.

The collision thing had occurred to me and,I think you would have to be charitable since OOTP does not mimic near collisions. IOW OOTP's drops, overall, will look worse as they are done by a "guy on an island". IRL many times there are extenuating circumstances.

FWIW I've seen one in my game since I posted in this thread Aug 8th. Approx 25 games played.

Maybe autocalc will "fix" it for you? Maybe not. Without autocalc being run I would take your numbers with a grain of salt. Nothing against you but with all LTMs on default 1.000 there can be some categories of numbers that get pretty far out of line.

Either way we're still in need of real life numbers. I've looked at baseball reference and haven't found anything. Maybe some of the pay sights have the info? Hard to believe in this day and age those numbers aren't being kept somewhere.

[LunchBox]

Good players have bad games, I'm sure that number could possibly be correct. However, as others have stated that's a lot of real life game pbp's to go through.

[Rain King]

The number of times a batter reached on an error (Fly Ball or Line Drive) by an Outfielder each of the past 10 seasons.

2010 - 111
2011 - 102
2012 - 105
2013 - 106
2014 - 115
2015 - 90
2016 - 98
2017 - 109
2018 - 99
2019 - 124

*Results found using Stathead.com

[kriscolic]

Link?

[Rain King]

https://stathead.com/baseball/

You need a subscription, but the first month is free.

You can find these results by using

Batting By Team
Event Type: "Reaches On Error"

Then, you can use those results to further filter by position (i.e. LF, CF, RF) and Batted Ball Type (i.e. Line Drive, Fly Ball).

[fredbeene]

Originally Posted by kriscolic

As stated in my previous post, 3 dropped balls per team per year would mean a dropped ball somewhere in MLB every other day. Do I really need to do hours of tedious research to prove that that is not what happens in reality?

Can someone please point me to the stats OOTPB keeps showing dropped flyballs....that would be awesome!!!

Blown double plays?
Gamewinning hits?
Sacrifice attempts?
Grandslams.
Walkoffs?