Pitch mix/minimum pitch quality

Wallad89 · 07-24-2020, 12:48 PM

I have a knuckleball starter that I juiced up, just to experiment because they are so rare to come by. He has an 80/80 knuckle, a 65/70 screwball and a fastball, curve, and change all at 40/40. Elite stuff but below average movement and control. What I'm curious about is are those 3 below average pitches worth keeping? I presume the knuckler is enough to carry the load, especially with a plus secondary, but does having 3 extra pitches help or hurt? How often does he use them? Is there any way to see his pitch usage or stats on individual pitches? If a reliever has a 20 or 30 third pitch I assume it would get blown up if he ever used it so I always just delete it, but 40 seems maybe usable as long as it's rare.

Rain King · 07-24-2020, 01:04 PM

Extra pitches almost never hurt. Even if they are not very good. The game basically determines that the pitcher is able to use their arsenal in an ideal way.

However, I believe the one exception to that might be Knuckleball pitchers based on research some have done. They lose some kind of bonus when they also have a fastball.

One Great Matrix · 07-25-2020, 05:06 AM

Yeah, they do a pretty good job simulating or emulating that...seems when a guy has 4-6 pitches, one or two of those pitches are the ones that hitters usually hit .300+ on but he only goes to it from time-to-time & if the hitter isn't expecting it (75%+ vs. batter?), if the hitter is expecting it then he's got a decent chance but the pitcher is still in control.

Cryomaniac · 07-25-2020, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

Extra pitches almost never hurt. Even if they are not very good. The game basically determines that the pitcher is able to use their arsenal in an ideal way.

However, I believe the one exception to that might be Knuckleball pitchers based on research some have done. They lose some kind of bonus when they also have a fastball.

How would that work with someone like R.A. Dickey? He threw mostly knuckleballs, but also mixed in a fastball that pushed 90 on occasion, which was a lot of the reason why he was so good at times.

CBeisbol · 07-25-2020, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

How would that work with someone like R.A. Dickey? He threw mostly knuckleballs, but also mixed in a fastball that pushed 90 on occasion, which was a lot of the reason why he was so good at times.

There's a link in mynsig to user studies. In that link there's a link to a study about pitch types. There's some information there about the knuckleball/fastball situation.

Basically, having a knuckleball reduced BABIP unless the pitcher also has a fastball

07-24-2020, 12:48 PM	#1
Wallad89 Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 11	Pitch mix/minimum pitch quality I have a knuckleball starter that I juiced up, just to experiment because they are so rare to come by. He has an 80/80 knuckle, a 65/70 screwball and a fastball, curve, and change all at 40/40. Elite stuff but below average movement and control. What I'm curious about is are those 3 below average pitches worth keeping? I presume the knuckler is enough to carry the load, especially with a plus secondary, but does having 3 extra pitches help or hurt? How often does he use them? Is there any way to see his pitch usage or stats on individual pitches? If a reliever has a 20 or 30 third pitch I assume it would get blown up if he ever used it so I always just delete it, but 40 seems maybe usable as long as it's rare.

07-25-2020, 05:06 AM	#3
One Great Matrix All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 1,782	Yeah, they do a pretty good job simulating or emulating that...seems when a guy has 4-6 pitches, one or two of those pitches are the ones that hitters usually hit .300+ on but he only goes to it from time-to-time & if the hitter isn't expecting it (75%+ vs. batter?), if the hitter is expecting it then he's got a decent chance but the pitcher is still in control. __________________

07-24-2020, 01:04 PM	#2
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,323	Extra pitches almost never hurt. Even if they are not very good. The game basically determines that the pitcher is able to use their arsenal in an ideal way. However, I believe the one exception to that might be Knuckleball pitchers based on research some have done. They lose some kind of bonus when they also have a fastball.