Face of the Franchise is a disaster

[Ron2112]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

Live mission SEs just became the de facto team for even longer now.

The live missions were doable by a F2P player within 2 weeks of starting your team, I've done it in that time frame twice. For F2P players the game stalls at silver/gold as passive PP generation dries up. It wouldn't shock me if a lot of new players stopped playing the game 6-7 weeks after starting (once they reached silver+) as the game becomes an obvious time/money sink at that point

….which is kind of where I am now. Oscillating between silver (where I'm finishing about 95-65) and gold (where I'm finishing 70-90). Still having fun though. I figure in a few weeks, I'll have enough PP saved to buy a real game-changer that will help me break the plateau. We'll see....

[HRBaker]

Too many cards of the same player - agreed. There should only be two IMHO; (1) Average Career Card, and (2) Best Year Card. The AVG Card should be what's available initially, and the Best Year Card should be a reward card for tournaments, collections, and maybe special card packs.


Additional released sets should be like the "Negro League Set"... World Series cards, player of the month cards, All-Star game cards, Special Edition Cards, etc. are all overkill.


For LIVE players, they should have their "Live" card and maybe a "Best Past Season" card. No future Heroes.


This over saturation of players cards and collections presses the limits of the auction House, overpricing everything of any value.


No one ever said it was easy, but this certainly isn't working right...

[mayday10]

Packs are tough. I am at over 350 packs, almost 2000 cards without seeing anything above a live diamond, and before that (diamond mcguire), it was 100 packs.

That and the slow drip of pp provides for very little intrigue as we go.

I would love an exchange/crafting system, where you can take a number of players and upgrade them. That way, if you put time in, you could generate some decent historical cards. You would have something to do with all those live players, and they could be upgraded.

I dont want things to be easy... but grinding should get you somewhere and a bit more "action" is needed

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Obviously you arent expecting to pull the exact cards you want. The point is that if every random card is as overpriced on the market as people say it is now, then you will be able to earn more than 1000 PP on average for each one you open. Its already like 750 ev in normal times. This should be a gold mine.

except the price of everything apart from lives (which will be most of what you pack) has risen so your expected value hasn't risen by as much as the market has risen

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Too many cards of the same player - agreed. There should only be two IMHO; (1) Average Career Card, and (2) Best Year Card. The AVG Card should be what's available initially, and the Best Year Card should be a reward card for tournaments, collections, and maybe special card packs.

Strongly disagree. More variety is always better!

However, only one card of a player should ever be required for a specific collection.

Originally Posted by mayday10

Packs are tough. I am at over 350 packs, almost 2000 cards without seeing anything above a live diamond, and before that (diamond mcguire), it was 100 packs.

Some 100 packs, three perfects, five diamonds.

ALL of them live. FML.

[waittilnextyear]

Count me in the 'this thread is kind of whiny' camp. I wish we didn't have to do the faux virtual class warfare stuff on a daily basis.

I get how some people, star-crossed to be F2P for all eternity, are not happy with prices going up. But, (1) if you aren't paying you probably shouldn't aspire to be at the top of the heap unless you are putting in all the grind-y work necessary and (2) the AH had become pretty dead and lifeless. It desperately needed a jolt. Making it so all cards have value makes sense to me. Everyone has the option to keep playing or stop.

From OOTP's perspective, they made it fun and profitable to rip packs again (which, of course, is what they always want it to be) and they also gave a shiny new toy to some of their biggest benefactors.

I am not among the top echelon of whales, but I have spent a tidy sum this cycle. That said, I haven't completed a single FOTF yet because (1) it's not easy and (2) I lacked the foresight to stock up when it was good to stock up. I don't think whether you can complete it easily or not should really be the factor that determines if something is good or not.

I would bristle at the suggestion that OOTP doesn't care about the little guy, because both little guys and big guys are needed to make this game ecosystem work. I think the tournament system and the LIVE SE missions were pretty giant giveaways to the F2P crowd this cycle. Especially when you consider that a 2.5m pp Bartolo Colon can be won sometimes in RNG-fest iron tourneys. It can't be all about keeping the $0 player happy, though, the spenders also need bait to grab their attention.

I would also say that some of the money players are unhappy that their assets are being devalued by successive releases. But, power creep is something that exists in games like this. If you spend big early, you have some risk, but you also have a large cardbase to make moves as circumstances change.

[Westheim]

Let me clarify what I said above just real quick:

ANY ONE card of a player should count towards an achievement. So if Joe Shlabotnik has a (64) rookie card, and a (82) All Star card, and a (53) Unsung Heroes card, any one of those would be valid for a collection that requires *a* Joe Shlabotnik.

- unless of course it's something like "Rookie Sensation Bronzes" ...

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

I get how some people, star-crossed to be F2P for all eternity, are not happy with prices going up. But, (1) if you aren't paying you probably shouldn't aspire to be at the top of the heap unless you are putting in all the grind-y work necessary

For me its not about being top of the heap, its about making teams that i find fun. I currently have 5 teams so I have 2 licenses, I'm not a free to play player (but that is another argument) I have spent a bit on one team. But the fact that I have several teams means alongside the fact I live in Europe makes playing the market almost impossible as there are nowhere near as many cards posted in EU times and never any deals. Having 5 teams makes tournaments an endless task, so i only do those on one team, so i rely on passive generation of PP as my main source of income on most teams, one of the joys (for me) of OOTP was finding those sub 10k historical diamonds that seemed to do a job for the team i was using it on. Those players have at least doubled in price and are just going to be hoarded then locked in teams and never be used now.

EV of packs hasn't increased that much as the majority of your pulls are live cards which are at an all time low, and will continue to drop if pack opening increases, and lot of the high end cards have dropped in value, mid tier diamonds, or diamonds that were already used in collections have stayed roughly the same. But it will interesting to see what the new EV is once people have opened a decent sample size of packs

this will probably also have a knock on effect on next years Perfect Team, which ''should'' see people waiting a lot longer to buy any significant cards, because by the time Perfect Level comes out there should be plenty of power creep, so buying before then would seem a waste and may also see more people hoarding from day

[Charlatan]

For those of you worried about the sky falling it might not be as bad as anticipated.

I had been tracking the 81 OVR Tony Gwynn and the 89 OVR John Franco before these missions dropped. While that’s true both cards spiked real high the day of the mission release, they have both come back down to just 10% higher than their pre-mission levels. So the Gwynn can be had for around 10 to 12,000 PP and the Franco for 10 to 11k. To me that’s a reasonable amount of inflation to deal with.

Granted, I’d say these cards are the exception to the rule in that even though they’re gold they can be used at diamond level, and the price of almost all diamond cards is still crazy high. But I am thinking perhaps those prices will come down, albeit at a slower rate than the two specific cards listed above. I have been watching a number of diamond cards that were offered at 50% plus higher than their prior auction prices, and I see very few of them selling.

So while I’m still not a big fan of these missions, it might not be the end of the world scenario that has been speculated about.

[Ron2112]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Let me clarify what I said above just real quick:

ANY ONE card of a player should count towards an achievement. So if Joe Shlabotnik has a (64) rookie card, and a (82) All Star card, and a (53) Unsung Heroes card, any one of those would be valid for a collection that requires *a* Joe Shlabotnik.

- unless of course it's something like "Rookie Sensation Bronzes" ...

But it seems to me that this is what the game is edging towards as the season goes on, no? I mean, it's not realistic that EVERYTHING should be out there from Day 1. It's also less exciting.

I do agree with the sentiment someone expressed above that ripping packs has a bit more meaning now. I'm suddenly wondering whether I sold something that I'd have been better off holding onto. That's what keeps things fresh.

[JKap]

Originally Posted by eldur00

The problem is not into how many historical cards are pulled, but how many are in actual circulation, which is very different. The Historical cards ARE pulled, but people are holding on to them until they are part of a collection, either for themselves, or to sell at a later time. Even if the odds are increased, the mentality will remain - people will just hoard more of them to bank on a profit later.

Hoarding will only occur until the collection is opened and then the supply of hoarded cards will hit the market. After that there will no longer be a reason to hoard cards for available collections.

The best solution for a supply shortage and scarcity is to increase the supply. Using the market, supply can be increased most effectively by increasing the number of packs and the quality of pack pulls.

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

For those of you worried about the sky falling it might not be as bad as anticipated.

I had been tracking the 81 OVR Tony Gwynn and the 89 OVR John Franco before these missions dropped. While that’s true both cards spiked real high the day of the mission release, they have both come back down to just 10% higher than their pre-mission levels. So the Gwynn can be had for around 10 to 12,000 PP and the Franco for 10 to 11k. To me that’s a reasonable amount of inflation to deal with.

Granted, I’d say these cards are the exception to the rule in that even though they’re gold they can be used at diamond level, and the price of almost all diamond cards is still crazy high. But I am thinking perhaps those prices will come down, albeit at a slower rate than the two specific cards listed above. I have been watching a number of diamond cards that were offered at 50% plus higher than their prior auction prices, and I see very few of them selling.

So while I’m still not a big fan of these missions, it might not be the end of the world scenario that has been speculated about.

those cards were already relatively high priced due to use in gold tourneys, gold are probably going to be the least effected tier of cards as the requirements aren't too strict.

Diamonds which were previously sub 10k have now skyrocketed (if you can even find them on the market) some north of 50k, even some bronzes like Vlad Jr are 4-5k

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I'm beginning to think the few big money spenders are driving Perfect Team profits. These type of card releases are targeted to the big spenders, and there must be enough of them to make a nice profit margin for OOTP.


That said, I certainly understand why they cater to the big spenders - I would probably do the same thing, BUT - I hope they reinvest some of their profits into the classic game where I will be finding myself more often than not.

Be careful what you say...shhhh

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Too many cards of the same player - agreed. There should only be two IMHO; (1) Average Career Card, and (2) Best Year Card. The AVG Card should be what's available initially, and the Best Year Card should be a reward card for tournaments, collections, and maybe special card packs.


Additional released sets should be like the "Negro League Set"... World Series cards, player of the month cards, All-Star game cards, Special Edition Cards, etc. are all overkill.


For LIVE players, they should have their "Live" card and maybe a "Best Past Season" card. No future Heroes.


This over saturation of players cards and collections presses the limits of the auction House, overpricing everything of any value.


No one ever said it was easy, but this certainly isn't working right...

LOL. I understand perfectly. I play 1 team of just White Sox players & I usually buy every card as they come out......but the last one was of an obscure 3b named KAMM that was a rated 73 card that still going for 20,000+ I mean the card is not even playable at any level. NO WAY I'm going to pay that...It get ridiculous at times

[justpatrick]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

LOL. I understand perfectly. I play 1 team of just White Sox players & I usually buy every card as they come out......but the last one was of an obscure 3b named KAMM that was a rated 73 card that still going for 20,000+ I mean the card is not even playable at any level. NO WAY I'm going to pay that...It get ridiculous at times

Willie Kamm is obscure? He was one of the slickest fielding 3b the Sox ever had (better than Melton, sorry dude ) and one of their most popular players back in the day. The Sox set a record when they bought him from the SF Seals for 100k back in the early 20s. Not a Hall-of-Famer but one of my favorites from that era.

[ronhatch]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Requiring X of X, or (X - 1) of X, or (X - 2) or X cards, even at the lower levels, forcefully kicks open the door for the price gougers. OOTPD had to know that and did it anyway.

Honestly, given what I've seen of the programming of the game, I don't really expect them to know what they're doing for ANY of this. (Seriously, who writes code that crashes so often that they've added in-game code to make backups and to remind you to use it?)

As far as opening packs... on average, for every historical perfect card you get, you'll have somewhere around 2,000 live irons (depending on the exact percentage of historical irons... I'm guessing around 15% for this estimate... my pack pulls are actually well below that). Regardless of the exact number, that's an absolutely ridiculous ratio for a game where duplicates are completely useless except for selling.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by ronhatch

(Seriously, who writes code that crashes so often that they've added in-game code to make backups and to remind you to use it?)

Microsoft

[bailey]

Originally Posted by ronhatch

As far as opening packs... on average, for every historical perfect card you get, you'll have somewhere around 2,000 live irons (depending on the exact percentage of historical irons... I'm guessing around 15% for this estimate... my pack pulls are actually well below that). Regardless of the exact number, that's an absolutely ridiculous ratio for a game where duplicates are completely useless except for selling.

I've opened 1000 packs for Collingwood and I have received 2 live perfects and 45 diamonds. So, 3 less perfects than expected, but 12 more diamonds than expected. I still have 7 historical diamonds left to sell and when it is these cards' turn to show up in FotF, I should cash in for close to 1 million points. (not counting the golds, silvers, bronzes and irons which I didn't track). So, overall, as someone who didn't spend a penny on points this year, I can't complain about the value of packs.

edit: in case that wasn't clear, the value of all 45 diamonds and 2 perfects should approach 1 million after all are sold.

[MaroonAlberich]

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

I get how some people, star-crossed to be F2P for all eternity, are not happy with prices going up. But, (1) if you aren't paying you probably shouldn't aspire to be at the top of the heap unless you are putting in all the grind-y work necessary and (2) the AH had become pretty dead and lifeless. It desperately needed a jolt. Making it so all cards have value makes sense to me. Everyone has the option to keep playing or stop.

(1) Exactly which % of the top 1% of the top 1% are they looking to benefit here? Could be wrong, but I don't think we'll see more than a handful of players complete all FotF missions through the divisions and both leagues. At that point, why not just ship the cards to their favorite whales as a "thank you" and not upend the AH for so many. Which brings me to point 2...

(2) Can't think of other ways to pop the AH a bit? Release diamond packs. Release Negro League packs. (Because FFS, after opening over 1000 packs across all teams, I have scored a grand total of 3 Negro League cards. I get that the mission is hard, but it shouldn't require godlike luck or a massive wallet to complete.) Allow packs to be combined to grant the next pack up. Got four SPs? Make a silver pack. Ten silvers? A gold pack. Four golds? A diamond pack. There is a metric ton of other options aside from pricing a decent proportion of the user base out of rounding out tourney teams.

Actually, back to (1) for a minute. Exactly how much "grind-y work" do you imagine some poor FTP has to put in before you would allow him to aspire to be near the top of the heap, much less on top of it?

[Lemandria]

I think 21 is done. There's still XX, for another six months or so.