What is a sim? What do you expect?

[Bobbyraz49]

Originally Posted by Bobbyraz49

Flat no longer ! Haaaa

This is a great sim and glad I found it. It was a longtime ago that I played Madden football on the PC. Wanted something realistic and not just something that typed out game play. This what I was hoping for.
Now.... for a football sim similar to OOTPBB21.

I'm a former Madden PC addict. We had 6 guys in our league. 3 in one conference and 3 in the other. We had a schedule that allowed the league to be sent so each could play their team's game. If there was a game between 2 owners, the home team would host the human opponent at their home.
GREAT times.

I also am happy to have found this game. I play as a GM/manager of a team and play every game.
Would LOVE a NFL sim like this. Don't need to run the play, just pick them.
IF OOTP needs someone to test a football game....here I am.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

The area I think OOTP fails at is the simulation of the management part of the MLB. Specifically the GM spot. The management sim side of OOTP is very stale, boring, and lifeless. In fact not much has changed in the GM world in 5 versions.

There is extent market drives what changes. Honestly multi-year sims of a franchise are pretty niche. Even in the community many play just to play out the current season with their favorite team. That is really the most popular type of game. To survive OOTP has to cater to that crowd that wants to just see if they can do better than the local club's manager at putting together a lineup and making in game decisions. No judgement there different people play it for different reasons. It is similar to FM in some respects I could care less about managing games and think the no sim of games unless you go on vacation while the AI might do crazy things with your team is a big negative. Still it is a huge seller because most people feel differently.

To some extent it doesn't seem like much is changing because there isn't really much to change. If you play GM you build a franchise and see it through slumps and hopefully glory. You sign players and manage the budget. The FM style of players mad because you don't play them and not showing up to practice or being able to fine them might be a welcome addition but there isn't a lot more to do. Other Sierra's front page sports n the 1990's I don't think any other game outside of FM has done this well. Most put it in but it gets little attention because the money is elsewhere.

The game does offer evolution of roster sizes, rules, and even expansion. I usually turn it off but it seems like that is the dynamic environment you are talking about. Finances can change. Players have stochastic development with some huge prospects flaming out and some minor league fillers becoming solid players.

I think nothing huge has changed in GM management of the team because there is a lot less room to grow. You can provide better information and maybe so more interaction. Still OOTP was and somewhat still is a text sim with a graphical interface. There was and still is huge room to grow that attracts fans of games like MLB the show. The growth potential for players like me that just want to be a GM and build a dynasty or at least not be a 100 game loser year in and out is much more limited.

There are aspects that could have been better for years. I don't blame the devs for that. They can make a perfect game for me and not grow sales and maybe go out of business due to the small market or they can be good businessmen and respond to market demand. Doing the later has brought OOTP a long way from version 1 and has made the game last 20 years. I am glad they did it. They have made improvements in just playing the GM as well. Even historical has gotten upgrades despite the even smaller market for historical play. OOTP developments has expanded beyond just baseball and brought more resources to make the game better. Can't fault them for a good business plan.

If they could have made money on just being a text sim and maximizing immersion as a GM they may have done it but 3D parks better graphics accurate rosters, MLB licenses, etc. sell to a larger crowd which keeps the game going. My style of play may not be the main focus of upgrades but it still gets attention. Can't say that for all devs. I find it amazing this game is still getting new versions 20 years later. You can't say that is anything but a success. It is kind of like people complaining that Jaguar or Bentley are making SUVs. The money from the SUVs is needed to keep the luxury sports sedans afloat. Same here we need the 3D park crowd where MLB licenses and accurate opening day or current day rosters are important. I think this game would be dead if it was still a fictional sim like it was for a few years until the courts ruled lists of names of players aren't intellectual property and could be used.

[One Great Matrix]

Just having fun with baseball, buying the game, personally.

[trident]

I think it really depends if you believe sim is the term these days for this genre. On our site GM Games, we focus on keywords like manager or management now instead of simulation. It is getting too blended with arcade and reflex based games rather than turn-based algorithms.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Enjoyable thread with many valid opinions.

I'd like to suggest that the topic "what is a sim?" is equivalent to the topic "what is a meal?".

People want different things from sims and meals and it is interesting to see what different people want, but the answers will be very different every time.