Best SS for Diamond/Perfect?

[Tek15]

As per title - I have had zero luck with gettting a good OF to drop but have managed to get a bunch of solid IF cards over the last month. Problem is I cannot decide who plays where, especially SS over the long haul.
I currently platoon Morgan/Wagner at 3rd and have Lajoie at 1b due to his 6'1 height but it feels like a waste, but he is the only 6+ footer.



100 SE Luke Appling
100 SE Jackie Robinson
100 Nap Lajoie
100 Honus Wagner
100 Bill Dahlen
100 Joe Morgan
100 Hughie Jennings


As always, appreciate any input, thanks!

[X3NEIZE]

Of those options Jennings and Dahlen.... I would say Ozzie or Pop Lloyd are the two best SS in the game. Range is the most critical stat for a SS, but unlike the other IF the other three stats need to be as high as possible as well.... I did not do well with Jackie @ SS and of those listed and cobnverted, he should be the best, but his ZR was crap.

[Tek15]

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

Of those options Jennings and Dahlen.... I would say Ozzie or Pop Lloyd are the two best SS in the game. Range is the most critical stat for a SS, but unlike the other IF the other three stats need to be as high as possible as well.... I did not do well with Jackie @ SS and of those listed and cobnverted, he should be the best, but his ZR was crap.

I've been using Jennings last few seasons but was curious how Appling performs since his Range/Arm/DP are all a bit higher but the 68 Error rating makes me nervous!

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by Tek15

I've been using Jennings last few seasons but was curious how Appling performs since his Range/Arm/DP are all a bit higher but the 68 Error rating makes me nervous!

Appling IMO is not a good SS at all... not even a top 30

[AdmiralTrey]

Don't forget about Legend Cal Ripken Jr., Mr. Iron Man himself!

[2tango2]

Tulo

[X3NEIZE]

And Robin Yount is also tier-1

[Charlatan]

If you have a third baseman and a second baseman with good is zone ratings would that allow you to put a shortstop there who had a slightly worse ZR? I mean, if all your infielders had above average ZR don’t they sort of cancel each other out? Seems to me there are only so many infield balls to snag and if everyone is great at it some players will just be left out because of a numbers game.

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

If you have a third baseman and a second baseman with good is zone ratings would that allow you to put a shortstop there who had a slightly worse ZR? I mean, if all your infielders had above average ZR don’t they sort of cancel each other out? Seems to me there are only so many infield balls to snag and if everyone is great at it some players will just be left out because of a numbers game.

Don't just look for ZR, before than you can anticipate a great fielding by looking at what's needed to be a great fielder in a given IF pos.

1B, look arm, height and error
2B, Range needs to be the highest followed by error and arm is not as critical here
3B this is where Arm becomes the #1 rating, you want as close as 100 as you can
SS Range, Range, Range and Range... but unlike the rest of the IF positions, the other Arm, Error and TD need to be as highest possible.

So Typically a great SS will train well in 2B and depending on the Arm, they will also train well in 3B

[canadiancreed]

I can't recommened Perfect because there's no chance in hell I'll get one, but I got very lucky with a 96 Alex Rodriguez, and have never had any complaints. Good hitting and fielding is a nice combo.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by Tek15

I've been using Jennings last few seasons but was curious how Appling performs since his Range/Arm/DP are all a bit higher but the 68 Error rating makes me nervous!

100 Appling is a 10 war player for me every year
High war in a year was 13.3
Lowest was 8.7
every other years were 9's & 10's

[Charlatan]

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

Don't just look for ZR, before than you can anticipate a great fielding by looking at what's needed to be a great fielder in a given IF pos.

1B, look arm, height and error
2B, Range needs to be the highest followed by error and arm is not as critical here
3B this is where Arm becomes the #1 rating, you want as close as 100 as you can
SS Range, Range, Range and Range... but unlike the rest of the IF positions, the other Arm, Error and TD need to be as highest possible.

So Typically a great SS will train well in 2B and depending on the Arm, they will also train well in 3B

Thank you for a great response. I wasn’t saying I was just relying on ZR but Just throwing out a question. However, your detailed answer this is a couple more questions for me. Since you seem to know a lot about defensive contributions to the team… Regarding that list above are you saying that for third base that arm is all you consider when evaluating a third baseman? That you ignore the overall fielding at third base entirely? Or is this simplifying it too much? Maybe you consider the fielding ratings and arm is used as sort of a tiebreaker if you’re waiting to third baseman and trying to figure out which one you’d like to use?

I’m also curious how you came to your conclusions. Have people done studies where they vary just the arm strength for instance of a third baseman and run Sims with the OOTP engine and then examined the results? Or what? I’m quite curious.

Thanks again for giving me something to chew on while I think about my team… That’s a good pasttime for those frequent times when I don’t have much in the way of PP for my FTP teams! I plan and analyze so that when I have the funds I know what I’m looking for.

[fignuts]

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Thank you for a great response. I wasn’t saying I was just relying on ZR but Just throwing out a question. However, your detailed answer this is a couple more questions for me. Since you seem to know a lot about defensive contributions to the team… Regarding that list above are you saying that for third base that arm is all you consider when evaluating a third baseman? That you ignore the overall fielding at third base entirely? Or is this simplifying it too much? Maybe you consider the fielding ratings and arm is used as sort of a tiebreaker if you’re waiting to third baseman and trying to figure out which one you’d like to use?

I’m also curious how you came to your conclusions. Have people done studies where they vary just the arm strength for instance of a third baseman and run Sims with the OOTP engine and then examined the results? Or what? I’m quite curious.

Thanks again for giving me something to chew on while I think about my team… That’s a good pasttime for those frequent times when I don’t have much in the way of PP for my FTP teams! I plan and analyze so that when I have the funds I know what I’m looking for.

Handyman's Guide has always helped me out. Gives you the math breakdown for each position. Dunno if it's up to date after ~7 years, but should still give ya a good sense of what to look out for.

[allenciox]

There is absolutely no question who the best SS in the game is: SE Jackie Robinson. He combines fantastic hitting with great (but not best) defense. There is no other shortstop that comes close.

Same thing in CF: Tris Speaker is far and away the best CF in the game, and by a similar margin to Jackie at SS. But as an FTP player, the chance that I will ever have either one of those players is probably nil.

In Diamond league, the best way to identify the whales is whether they have both Tris Speaker and SE Jackie Robinson on their team. Both cards are > 500k PP. This is a much better approach because just counting the number of perfect cards is not a good measure --- there are plenty of perfect cards that are worse than many diamond cards.... just like in PT 20, there are definitely different tiers of perfect cards.

[Spieler]

Originally Posted by allenciox

There is absolutely no question who the best SS in the game is: SE Jackie Robinson. He combines fantastic hitting with great (but not best) defense. There is no other shortstop that comes close.

Same thing in CF: Tris Speaker is far and away the best CF in the game, and by a similar margin to Jackie at SS. But as an FTP player, the chance that I will ever have either one of those players is probably nil.

In Diamond league, the best way to identify the whales is whether they have both Tris Speaker and SE Jackie Robinson on their team. Both cards are > 500k PP. This is a much better approach because just counting the number of perfect cards is not a good measure --- there are plenty of perfect cards that are worse than many diamond cards.... just like in PT 20, there are definitely different tiers of perfect cards.

Well put. And add King Kelly to that list. 4 teams in my Diamond league with all 3

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by allenciox

There is absolutely no question who the best SS in the game is: SE Jackie Robinson. He combines fantastic hitting with great (but not best) defense. There is no other shortstop that comes close.

Same thing in CF: Tris Speaker is far and away the best CF in the game, and by a similar margin to Jackie at SS. But as an FTP player, the chance that I will ever have either one of those players is probably nil.

In Diamond league, the best way to identify the whales is whether they have both Tris Speaker and SE Jackie Robinson on their team. Both cards are > 500k PP. This is a much better approach because just counting the number of perfect cards is not a good measure --- there are plenty of perfect cards that are worse than many diamond cards.... just like in PT 20, there are definitely different tiers of perfect cards.

With that said, most whales do not play Jackie as SS and Tris as CF... that telling you something? I do agree that the top 3 hitters are Kelly, Tris and Jackie... to me in that order...

[JeffersonJim]

Here is how the first perfect league SS looked. Then to compare I also included 3B and 2B.