Total newb at Baseball - struggling with ootp

[Cynical]

Originally Posted by BBGiovanni

For a very basic guide, I think this is one of the best: https://archive.org/details/High_Hea...Strategy_Guide It's from the last computer baseball game I played before switching to OOTP forever... it's very basic, but it's only 20 pages and I think will be helpful for you. Good luck!

A lot of the information in this guide contradicts modern sabermetric wisdom. Lineup construction is sub-optimal (2nd batter tends to come up in more high-leverage situations than any other spot; 3rd actually tends to come up in the fewest high-leverage situations of any of the top 5), there's waaaaaaay too much emphasis on bunting around in the bottom of the order (in general, only pitchers should bunt unless it's 0 outs runner on second in a situation where one run wins the game), the listed success percentage listed needed for stealing second to be a good idea is too low, and it also breezes over stealing third (generally a good idea in one-run situations with a 50% chance of success and one out or a 70% chance of success and one out in general) and double-steals (which need about a 55% chance of success with 0 or 1 outs to pay off). Too much emphasis is placed on the Save; it's better to focus on platooning your best two or three relievers than to strictly save your best for the Save. The "ideal roster" of "14 position players, 11 pitchers" is kind of laughable in today's game (6 man bullpen, yikes!) I'm not a fan of skipping the 5th slot in the rotation due to rest days, strict rotation preserves pitchers better throughout the season.

[GBL]

Hello nukkxx,


i totaly agree with Cynical and the strategy guide. Its very old and the tactics explained are overhauled today. But as a beginners standpoint, what is Cynical talking about? "sabermetric wisdom" ?
Is this a new baseball rule?
No, the rules in baseball 2000 were the same as today. 9 innings, 3 outs ends an inning, pitchers throw the ball, batters try to hit em.


But at some point the view how we look at games/strategy and how we look at players changed. A good film about this is "Moneyball with Brad Pit". Spoiler Alert: Pre Moneyball area: "How to choose a player: How does a player look like or his girlfriend", after Moneyball "What is the on base percentage (OBP) of a player". The baseball rules are the same, but suddenly GM´s choose other baseball players as before.


The same thing happend with baseball strategies. There were unwritten rules how to play. But with statistics and computers these unwritten rules were falsified (like the lineup in the article Cynical talked about).
The sentence "with statistis and computers" is very mystic and without explaination the same as "unwritten rules". If u wanne dive deeper in the sabermetric stuff (make decisions on statistics) i would recommend the book "The book, playing the percentages in baseball" from Tango, Lichtman and Dolphin. Another book in this direction (not as detailed or documented with statistics as "the book") is "Ahead of the Curve: Inside the Baseball Revolution" from Brian Kenny. If u just wanne read one book, i would recommend "The book" from Tango, Lichtman and Dolphin

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Cynical

A lot of the information in this guide contradicts modern sabermetric wisdom.

I know it does. The original poster knows nothing about baseball and asked for basic help/general lnowledge. Reading The Book or Fangraphs is not where you start, this guide is full of basic explanations and jargon and can be read in minutes. He has the rest of his life to master VORP and WAR and DRS and a thousand other formulae and acronyms, and despite endless lectures many casual fans never become interested in sabermetrics.

I once saw Mark Canha's college coach tell him to bunt with the bases loaded, and another time during the same game. You can't understand why Dave Esquer is dumb unless you know why he's doing things in the first place.

[nukkxx]

Yes, I'm a total newb at Baseball and to be honest I'm struggling even to understand exactly how it's played. I did progress the last 2 days but I'm far from understanding everything so these concepts about statistics seem so advanced at this stage :-) But sooner or later it will have an interest for me.
So far trying to understand the very basics of the game. I'm progressing but ... slowly. Anyway all the info you are posting is extremely interesting and helpful so don't hesitate. Everything will be archived here and this thread is now my reference sheet. Thank you !

[outrider64]

OOTPDevelopments has a youtube channel which may have some videos that may help you. The Science Saturdays that Alex from the development team does, are excellent tutorials. I am almost in the same boat about Football Manager. I am a very casual soccer fan, but I enjoy GM games. But as far as the in depth strategies etc of soccer I am lost.

[nukkxx]

And BTW, i'm putting this here if some French speaking dude sees this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf-r1ToSaEw
It's an animation about the basics of baseball. It's in French but it's by far the clearer explanation about the game I found. The animation made it much clearer.

[nukkxx]

Originally Posted by outrider64

I am almost in the same boat about Football Manager. I am a very casual soccer fan, but I enjoy GM games. But as far as the in depth strategies etc of soccer I am lost.

Now I can imagine that ! Soccer seems easy and natural for us in Europe, as baseball is for you in the US :-) Good luck with soccer (FM is a great game !)

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by nukkxx

Yes, I'm a total newb at Baseball and to be honest I'm struggling even to understand exactly how it's played. I did progress the last 2 days but I'm far from understanding everything so these concepts about statistics seem so advanced at this stage :-) But sooner or later it will have an interest for me.

I hope it's the start of a lifelong interest! I was much the same about hockey and by watching a lot of it and playing first Sega Genesis and then the EA NHL game I learned so much. I'm sorry MLB/MiLB is not in business for you at the moment but maybe that will change soon. I think there's a league in France too, right? From what I hear about your conditions I suppose they're no closer to playing than we are here. Bon chance!

[Cynical]

Originally Posted by GBL

No, the rules in baseball 2000 were the same as today.

That's not true though. Rosters today are 26 men, not 25, and pitchers have to face a minimum of three batters unless there's an injury (which wasn't true in 2000). And that's only counting the stuff that's immediately observable in a management sim; stuff like the changed baserunning rules (i.e. the Buster Posey/Chase Utley rules), the smaller strike-zone (the written rule didn't change, but the way it's enforced sure did), umpire reviews, no-pitch intentional walks (which OOTP doesn't have yet), the new rules about pitcher deliveries, etc. all have made an impact, and mean the rules in baseball aren't the same today as they were 20 years ago.

[chrondon84]

My dad pulled me out of bed in the middle of the night when I was ten years old to watch this stuff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_(TV_series))

https://www.pbs.org/video/part-1-our-game-c6e5nn/

[chrondon84]

Here are some books that are awesome for noobs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moneyball

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bi...eball_Abstract

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ne...de_to_Pitchers

[chrondon84]

Here are some of the baseball games through history that you should have probably played:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.B.I._Baseball_(series))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Gr...eague_Baseball

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVP_Baseball_2005

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLB:_The_Show

[chrondon84]

9 links to check out for each inning.

Rock on and good luck on your journey.

[GBL]

Originally Posted by Cynical

That's not true though. Rosters today are 26 men, not 25, and pitchers have to face a minimum of three batters unless there's an injury (which wasn't true in 2000). And that's only counting the stuff that's immediately observable in a management sim; stuff like the changed baserunning rules (i.e. the Buster Posey/Chase Utley rules), the smaller strike-zone (the written rule didn't change, but the way it's enforced sure did), umpire reviews, no-pitch intentional walks (which OOTP doesn't have yet), the new rules about pitcher deliveries, etc. all have made an impact, and mean the rules in baseball aren't the same today as they were 20 years ago.

Cynical, thats correct. I try answer at nukkxx level of baseball knowledge. I dont wanne overwhelm him with details. I am very basic with the word rule.

[nukkxx]

Originally Posted by chrondon84

Here are some of the baseball games through history that you should have probably played:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.B.I._Baseball_(series))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Gr...eague_Baseball

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVP_Baseball_2005

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLB:_The_Show

Thanks ! Probably a great way to learn/understand the game ! Will definitely try to get one.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Honestly the actual game of baseball, what happens on the field/diamond, is pretty easy. Even the best manager in the MLB only affect the outcome of about handful of games per year with game day strategy. It's not even close to European Football level of strategic and tactical game day elements.

There are some weird rules that happen in the field/diamond. But the basic rules from sandlot kids baseball hold true all the way to the MLB.

Now what is extremely difficult in baseball is the behind the scenes stuff. Running an organization and all of the organizational rules. Those are pretty much all unique and crazy lol. That's where the development aspect comes in and all of the saber vs traditional talk comes into play. How to actually put an mlb team together and how to support that team with your 6 to 10 minor league teams.

[nukkxx]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Now what is extremely difficult in baseball is the behind the scenes stuff.

And are all these things covered/simulated in ootp21 ?

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by nukkxx

And are all these things covered/simulated in ootp21 ?

I would say a lot are. You have the yearly entry draft, the yearly Rule 5 draft, international amateur signings every july, international complex for <20 year olds, the complete minor league system for mlb.

minor league and mlb have rules like options, 40 man rosters, protection from aforementioned rule 5.

And contracts are vastly different then say both American Football and European Football.

a lot of their rules are from the actual labor agreement called the CBA thats between MLB and its players. Its been in the news a lot recently because owners are fighting with players about a shortened covid season.

In America the MLB has special monopoly privileges from the US government and the entire player base is in a union. but the union only covers mlb players not minor league players unless they actually have a mlb contract.

lol so yeah a bunch of that stuff is in the game. once you add minor leagues to your game file it get more complicated.

but if you just start with the plain old MLB and no minors then there are way less rules and weird stuff you need to know about.

[nukkxx]

Guys, just watched Moneyball with Brad Pitt and yeah, that's a great movie. Exactly what I needed to get in the mood of baseball. And I'm starting to understand the basics of the game. So I'm progressing !!! But back to Moneyball, what a great movie ! Really enjoyed it. Many many thanks to those who recommended it to me !

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by nukkxx

Guys, just watched Moneyball with Brad Pitt and yeah, that's a great movie. Exactly what I needed to get in the mood of baseball. And I'm starting to understand the basics of the game. So I'm progressing !!! But back to Moneyball, what a great movie ! Really enjoyed it. Many many thanks to those who recommended it to me !

now read the book! It's really good