Trading is Awful

Fronzizzle · 04-23-2020, 09:08 PM

I know there are already posts about trades & trade offers, but I can't get over how bad the entire process is in this game.

I've tried multiple settings (in terms of the AI, my team's focus and needs, etc.) across a total of 30 seasons, broken up into 4 separate games. No matter what, I run into the same issue:

1) The trades the CPU offers are beyond ridiculous. "I know you're rebuilding, but please take my 29-year old two-star CF for your 24-year old RP and 21-year-old four-star SS prospect that was the #2 overall pick just over a year ago." I've read that some people have stated that this is just a "starting" point, but this doesn't ring true for two reasons: One, no GM in their right mind would start an offer like that and two, if you go in and Discuss trade and change it more to your favor, you often get the "I need more to make this work" message.

2) It's nearly impossible to find a recent free-agent signing that the team doesn't want to trade. And when I say recent, I mean recent as in THE VERY NEXT DAY. In the off-season, Gary Sanchez was a free agent that signed with the Mets for like $25M per. I shopped 2-star RP the next day and yep - he was offered.

3) When shopping a player and asking for prospects, why do teams ONLY offer players that are 23 and older? I honestly don't think I've ever had a player younger than 23 offered. And that's...just odd. Sometimes, teams need to clean 40-man roster spots and are looking for a lottery ticket. One-star, two-star...why are players under the age of 23 NEVER offered?

Okay, rant over. Thanks for listening.

pgjocki · 04-23-2020, 09:34 PM

I believe the trade logic is difficult to code because people have made comments for years.

I remember going back to OOTP 12 where it was insanely easy to straight up fleece the AI in trades and people created entire posts about House Rules.

Also, each game is a new universe and you can't just do an even comparison. Even if the league's have the exact same settings.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

CBeisbol · 04-23-2020, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fronzizzle

I know there are already posts about trades & trade offers, but I can't get over how bad the entire process is in this game.

I've tried multiple settings (in terms of the AI, my team's focus and needs, etc.) across a total of 30 seasons, broken up into 4 separate games. No matter what, I run into the same issue:

1) The trades the CPU offers are beyond ridiculous. "I know you're rebuilding, but please take my 29-year old two-star CF for your 24-year old RP and 21-year-old four-star SS prospect that was the #2 overall pick just over a year ago." I've read that some people have stated that this is just a "starting" point, but this doesn't ring true for two reasons: One, no GM in their right mind would start an offer like that and two, if you go in and Discuss trade and change it more to your favor, you often get the "I need more to make this work" message.

Ever played fantasy baseball against other humans?
Or read the internet when fans make trade suggestions?

Quote:

2) It's nearly impossible to find a recent free-agent signing that the team doesn't want to trade. And when I say recent, I mean recent as in THE VERY NEXT DAY. In the off-season, Gary Sanchez was a free agent that signed with the Mets for like $25M per. I shopped 2-star RP the next day and yep - he was offered.

3) When shopping a player and asking for prospects, why do teams ONLY offer players that are 23 and older? I honestly don't think I've ever had a player younger than 23 offered. And that's...just odd. Sometimes, teams need to clean 40-man roster spots and are looking for a lottery ticket. One-star, two-star...why are players under the age of 23 NEVER offered?

Okay, rant over. Thanks for listening.

These i agree with

And, as for the first one

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgjocki

I believe the trade logic is difficult to code

jimmysthebestcop · 04-23-2020, 10:47 PM

I don't have much of a problem with bad offers made to the human from ai.

But yeah when the AI offers up a recent signing or recent traded player for a shop it completely breaks my brain.

DanKreider · 04-24-2020, 04:00 AM

2) It's nearly impossible to find a recent free-agent signing that the team doesn't want to trade. And when I say recent, I mean recent as in THE VERY NEXT DAY. In the off-season, Gary Sanchez was a free agent that signed with the Mets for like $25M per. I shopped 2-star RP the next day and yep - he was offered.

3) When shopping a player and asking for prospects, why do teams ONLY offer players that are 23 and older? I honestly don't think I've ever had a player younger than 23 offered. And that's...just odd. Sometimes, teams need to clean 40-man roster spots and are looking for a lottery ticket. One-star, two-star...why are players under the age of 23 NEVER offered?

These are the two things that really need a good amount of work and review in my opinion. #1 could use more fleshing out over time, but its just darn tough to code AI to always be intelligent.

Fronzizzle · 04-24-2020, 08:31 AM

I certainly understand that some of these are difficult to code/get right. But I also believe that many of these have been issues for generations of this game, and some (appear) to be getting worse.

I like OOTP, this is the 5th (I think) version I've owned and probably won't be my last. But one of the reasons I play it and not something like MLB The Show is that I want realism, and I want to be completely immersed in the universe. Some of these issues break that.

phenom · 04-24-2020, 09:18 AM

That's where I start with my trade offers. :shrug:

Calvert98 · 04-24-2020, 10:20 AM

I use Very Difficult + favor prospects.

Also, I do not use the Stars (I think this is a player handicap).

Finally, I tend to avoid folks who seem like they have been the #1 prospect of the team for the past 3 years. But, candidly, the AI will not deal these guys for the most part.

With the above, I find the trade AI to be fairly good; and it seems to get a bit better every year.

Cal

SirMichaelJordan · 04-24-2020, 12:18 PM

I use trading on very hard and favor prospects. It’s easy to get what you want from the AI if you have patience (even on very hard)

The only thing wrong with trading in this game is the mechanics of it.

The trading AI isn’t the best (but pretty good when compared to other sports games) but it’s not because they offer you crap. The human will always have an advantage.

When you’re trading with the AI, do you not offer them crap?

With trading, there needs to be compromised from both parties but in OOTP it’s only one side (the user) doing the negotiating and that involves a lot of clicks and trial and error which can be frustrating for the user.

jimmysthebestcop · 04-24-2020, 10:12 PM

I don't think the trading with human part is the big problem.

The big problem is they offer up players they just signed or gave extensions to or traded for the next day.

Or they put these players up on their shopping list. Even though they just traded for them.

04-24-2020, 09:18 AM	#7
phenom Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Near the Great Wall. On the GOOD side. Posts: 3,763	That's where I start with my trade offers. :shrug: __________________ reported

04-24-2020, 12:18 PM	#9
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	I use trading on very hard and favor prospects. It’s easy to get what you want from the AI if you have patience (even on very hard) The only thing wrong with trading in this game is the mechanics of it. The trading AI isn’t the best (but pretty good when compared to other sports games) but it’s not because they offer you crap. The human will always have an advantage. When you’re trading with the AI, do you not offer them crap? With trading, there needs to be compromised from both parties but in OOTP it’s only one side (the user) doing the negotiating and that involves a lot of clicks and trial and error which can be frustrating for the user. Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 04-24-2020 at 12:22 PM.

04-23-2020, 09:08 PM	#1
Fronzizzle Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 177	Trading is Awful I know there are already posts about trades & trade offers, but I can't get over how bad the entire process is in this game. I've tried multiple settings (in terms of the AI, my team's focus and needs, etc.) across a total of 30 seasons, broken up into 4 separate games. No matter what, I run into the same issue: 1) The trades the CPU offers are beyond ridiculous. "I know you're rebuilding, but please take my 29-year old two-star CF for your 24-year old RP and 21-year-old four-star SS prospect that was the #2 overall pick just over a year ago." I've read that some people have stated that this is just a "starting" point, but this doesn't ring true for two reasons: One, no GM in their right mind would start an offer like that and two, if you go in and Discuss trade and change it more to your favor, you often get the "I need more to make this work" message. 2) It's nearly impossible to find a recent free-agent signing that the team doesn't want to trade. And when I say recent, I mean recent as in THE VERY NEXT DAY. In the off-season, Gary Sanchez was a free agent that signed with the Mets for like $25M per. I shopped 2-star RP the next day and yep - he was offered. 3) When shopping a player and asking for prospects, why do teams ONLY offer players that are 23 and older? I honestly don't think I've ever had a player younger than 23 offered. And that's...just odd. Sometimes, teams need to clean 40-man roster spots and are looking for a lottery ticket. One-star, two-star...why are players under the age of 23 NEVER offered? Okay, rant over. Thanks for listening.

04-23-2020, 09:34 PM	#2
pgjocki All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Maryland - just outside DC Posts: 1,590	I believe the trade logic is difficult to code because people have made comments for years. I remember going back to OOTP 12 where it was insanely easy to straight up fleece the AI in trades and people created entire posts about House Rules. Also, each game is a new universe and you can't just do an even comparison. Even if the league's have the exact same settings. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk __________________ - - - World Series championships: 1926, 1931, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1964, 1967, 1982, 2006, 2011

04-23-2020, 10:47 PM	#4
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,727 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	I don't have much of a problem with bad offers made to the human from ai. But yeah when the AI offers up a recent signing or recent traded player for a shop it completely breaks my brain.

04-24-2020, 04:00 AM	#5
DanKreider Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 117	2) It's nearly impossible to find a recent free-agent signing that the team doesn't want to trade. And when I say recent, I mean recent as in THE VERY NEXT DAY. In the off-season, Gary Sanchez was a free agent that signed with the Mets for like $25M per. I shopped 2-star RP the next day and yep - he was offered. 3) When shopping a player and asking for prospects, why do teams ONLY offer players that are 23 and older? I honestly don't think I've ever had a player younger than 23 offered. And that's...just odd. Sometimes, teams need to clean 40-man roster spots and are looking for a lottery ticket. One-star, two-star...why are players under the age of 23 NEVER offered? These are the two things that really need a good amount of work and review in my opinion. #1 could use more fleshing out over time, but its just darn tough to code AI to always be intelligent.

04-24-2020, 08:31 AM	#6
Fronzizzle Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 177	I certainly understand that some of these are difficult to code/get right. But I also believe that many of these have been issues for generations of this game, and some (appear) to be getting worse. I like OOTP, this is the 5th (I think) version I've owned and probably won't be my last. But one of the reasons I play it and not something like MLB The Show is that I want realism, and I want to be completely immersed in the universe. Some of these issues break that.

04-24-2020, 10:20 AM	#8
Calvert98 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 579	I use Very Difficult + favor prospects. Also, I do not use the Stars (I think this is a player handicap). Finally, I tend to avoid folks who seem like they have been the #1 prospect of the team for the past 3 years. But, candidly, the AI will not deal these guys for the most part. With the above, I find the trade AI to be fairly good; and it seems to get a bit better every year. Cal

04-24-2020, 10:12 PM	#10
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,727 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	I don't think the trading with human part is the big problem. The big problem is they offer up players they just signed or gave extensions to or traded for the next day. Or they put these players up on their shopping list. Even though they just traded for them.