I think I might have found the optimum strategy for service time and roster limits

[Vegas Vic]

I've been experimenting with various setups, and I thought I would share this in case others might be interested in giving it a try.

I've tried countless combinations of service time limits and roster limits with varying success. Setting service time limits keeps players moving up, but without roster limits you can get "pooling" of players at certain levels. If you set hard roster limits, the AI will adhere to that, but the downside is that there is a massive churning almost every day to keep the exact roster sizes in place. Often, players who aren't ready will be forced up at a certain level, or held back even if they're ready to move up. Got to maintain that exact count at each level.

I found that if you set your roster limits the day before opening day, then remove them on opening day, the AI will cull the dead weight, then maintain approximately the correct levels during the season, and place players in the correct leagues without the massive churning on the transaction list every day. Leave your service time limits on all year, and I think you'll be pleased with the results.

I've simmed about 50 seasons so far, and the results have been very promising.

[andyhdz]

Take me through your steps. On opening day do you run the AI organizes your organization button and then remove the roster limits? I use age restrictions to. Do you?

[Harry Hibbs]

This sounds very promising, Vic, thanks!

[endgame]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

Take me through your steps. On opening day do you run the AI organizes your organization button and then remove the roster limits? I use age restrictions to. Do you?

I suspect he is referring to simply changing the roster limit settings. The AI responds without any other buttons being clicked. Roster limit 40 one day, the next change to 30, the teams dump then and there, IIRC.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by andyhdz

Take me through your steps. On opening day do you run the AI organizes your organization button and then remove the roster limits? I use age restrictions to. Do you?

I use service time restrictions, but I don't use age restrictions. I've tried to use them before, but the game will cut the player on his birthday in the middle of the season, so I don't use them anymore.

Endgame is right, the AI will automatically cull the rosters when you set the roster limits the day before opening day. That's all you need to do. Then on opening day, set them back to "unlimited". You need to do this every season, but it only takes a couple of minutes to do.

[endgame]

I reaching far into memory with this, but a caution I seem to have carried with me after playing (complaining) about this behavior was Unlimited after seemed to be ok, but applying a set integer created a domino reaction that looked like it compelled the AI to bump up roster numbers. Maybe this year's different. It's a FWIW.

thanks for the input Veg. Always interesting to see what we can provoke.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by endgame

I reaching far into memory with this, but a caution I seem to have carried with me after playing (complaining) about this behavior was Unlimited after seemed to be ok, but applying a set integer created a domino reaction that looked like it compelled the AI to bump up roster numbers. Maybe this year's different. It's a FWIW.

thanks for the input Veg. Always interesting to see what we can provoke.

Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's imperative to set it to "unlimited" on opening day. From what I've seen, the roster sizes during the season will fluctuate from 26 to the low 30's, but it won't get out of hand. And the progression on the player cards looks much better, more logical movement. You don't see dozens of lines of a player getting bumped up and down, up and down to maintain those exact roster numbers. Here's an example of mid-season rosters from the 2055 season in my current test league.

[jpeters1734]

so what kind of players is the AI cutting? does it cut legit prospects, like it used to?

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

so what kind of players is the AI cutting? does it cut legit prospects, like it used to?

From what I've seen, it's cutting the low potential guys who are dead weight. I play with all of the leagues enabled, so these guys sometimes get picked up by an independent or foreign team.


I don't manage all of my minor league players. I lock the top prospects (about 25 to 30) and let the Assistant GM handle the other promotions/demotions.


I think this might work for those who manage all of their minor league players also, because it will make the AI teams better in handling their rosters, resulting in a more realistic and competitive game.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I think this might work for those who manage all of their minor league players also, because it will make the AI teams better in handling their rosters, resulting in a more realistic and competitive game.

Yeah, that's the part that sets off my old alarms. This one says make a decision, stay with the decision and maybe. Unlimited there piles 'em up. Exact settings stifle them, but they try. Change that setting and it mucks a lot of stuff up with releases and movements. One level always sees the other and tries to react. But....I'm old and it's an old memory. What'd they used to say, your mileage may vary? All I have on this. I gone.

[Mat]

I have never been a fan of roster limits for minors. I find service limits are more than enough.

[jimmysthebestcop]

I manage my entire minor league rosters well at least all of the starters on every level. Then I let the AI handle the rest because of injuries.

If we are only talking about the player team's AI I've only noticed it doing crazy promotions/demotions when you start to lock players to a minor league level. What happens is like 6 injuries. Then if you have locked say three 2B across multiple levels your team's AI has no idea how to promote/demote and balance the rosters.

If you have ZERO players locked it does its normal job. Me, I started to lock a good number of players which led me to basically locking in all starters and just letting the AI handle the bench players because of injuries.

I would say real world service time is pretty good for OOTP. The roster size I would probably recommend a higher than real life one. My next Universe I will probably set

AAA - 30
AA - 30
A+/A/A- 35
Rookie/DSL - 45

I think that should leave enough space for injuries and not break the AI. Certain levels through the course of a season can easily have 6+ players on the IL. If you hit bad luck and the level below has the same positions injured and this is where the AI fails.

And it is made worse whenever you lock more then say 12 guys across your different levels.

Now what do the AI controlled teams do? I have no idea and I am not that concerned either. They don't seem to be cutting anyone that is good at the time of the cut.

[Mr. Marlin]

OK,I am trying this. Last season I was a minor league manager and there were 8-10 players that were promoted/demoted every single day. I'd love to see that BS stop!

[BBGiovanni]

Thanks for posting this, I had noticed in my MLB season that the AI was not strictly adhering to roster limits, which seemed more logical and seem to be 30 or less at each level. I'll try this next time I start a fictional game.

[Vegas Vic]

One thing I didn't point out is that if you play the game without any service time or age restrictions, there's no need to set roster limits. The AI does a good job of keeping those roster sizes at reasonable levels. So if you don't care about having 30+ year old players in your low minors there's no need to enforce roster limits.

[homerj]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I would say real world service time is pretty good for OOTP. The roster size I would probably recommend a higher than real life one. My next Universe I will probably set

AAA - 30
AA - 30
A+/A/A- 35
Rookie/DSL - 45
.

This is also probably more realistic in the sense actual minor league teams have a reserve roster(I believe it's 35 total, 25 active roster). This is a concept I'd love to see in OOTP someday, then things like the lower phases of the Rule 5 draft would come in.


I'd also suggest going into the settings to get the right position player/pitcher mix.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by homerj

This is also probably more realistic in the sense actual minor league teams have a reserve roster(I believe it's 35 total, 25 active roster). This is a concept I'd love to see in OOTP someday, then things like the lower phases of the Rule 5 draft would come in.


I'd also suggest going into the settings to get the right position player/pitcher mix.

This is something I and probably a lot of others dont even think about. Setting roster limits and service time limits AS WELL as the general AI roster settings in the "Stats and AI" page would probably make things run A LOT smoother than what we expect.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Originally Posted by itsmb8

This is something I and probably a lot of others dont even think about. Setting roster limits and service time limits AS WELL as the general AI roster settings in the "Stats and AI" page would probably make things run A LOT smoother than what we expect.

I always set it so position/pitcherhas the correct mix but I don't think I actual ever explain it.

I bet a lot probably set it and then it slips your mind before you make a post about it.

So we should probably stress that whenever you set roster limits double check your position/pitcher ratio.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

I always set it so position/pitcherhas the correct mix but I don't think I actual ever explain it.

I bet a lot probably set it and then it slips your mind before you make a post about it.

So we should probably stress that whenever you set roster limits double check your position/pitcher ratio.

As a test I just went in to a default MLB setup to change the rookie leagues roster limit from "none" to "35," and nothing changed in the AI roster settings, as the mix was still at the default 7 relievers 13 position players setting.

So that might be why people see weird transactions from the AI trying to adhere to the roster limit, because the ai settings only cover the first 25 players and the AI randomly fills in the remaining 10 spots.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by itsmb8

So that might be why people see weird transactions from the AI trying to adhere to the roster limit, because the ai settings only cover the first 25 players and the AI randomly fills in the remaining 10 spots.

Those are two separate issues. The ratio of position players to pitchers is important, but when you set a hard limit of "X" players for the total roster size (25, 26, 30, 35, whatever), the AI doesn't look at this as "approximately X players", it looks at it as "I've got to keep this roster size at X total players." Take a look at the transaction logs and player cards and see how often these guys get bumped up and down to maintain those roster numbers.

The method I'm testing removes that burden from the AI and gives it a bit of a buffer to fluctuate the total roster sizes slightly, while maintaining players at the appropriate level instead of moving them up or down to maintain that exact roster count.