Hyper defense team - which park would be better?

BMW · 04-17-2020, 11:53 PM

One of the teams I run, I just try to max out the defense. Like every position at 100 or over.

I know others have tried. In this concept, what is better (either your opinion or if you've tried):

1. A ballpark with the minimum possible offense - to make your team's defense give the opponent the worst possible venue to hit the ball in play...

2. A ballpark with the maximum possible offense - to make it so everyone gives up tons of runs, but by gum, your players will have an advantage snagging more hits away from the opponents than they might from you.

Also, has anyone experimented with low Stuff/High control pitchers to maximize balls in play?

OMGPuppies · 04-18-2020, 02:23 AM

I would go minimum park settings.
Ex. Your offense is 1 their offense is 2.
2x2=4 while 2x1=2. The more you crank it up the bigger your disadvantage will grow.

Marleigh · 04-18-2020, 05:13 AM

I would use neither of those options, build a ground specific to your team. if you can't hit home runs turn home runs down and play small ball, if you have an all righty lineup turn up hitting factors for righty hitters and down for lefties and use all righty starting pitchers to try to benefit from that, investigate tactical options, build a strategy.

You need more than just great D you also need an offensive plan, because regardless how many runs your opponents score you will need at least 1 to win games.

Lemandria · 04-18-2020, 07:21 AM

The pitcher's park cuts all offense the same, minimum runs scored for both teams. The games tend to low scoring affairs where a very small advantage, walks for example, will add up over the full course of a season. So will speed.

BUT all is not sunny. You've also minimized team income, PP is greatly reduced.

And some of the greatest players in the game can hit .250 in deadball. Are you absolutely certain your pitchers are the right ones to win here?

I'd go with a hybrid park, particularly if you haven't experienced any of this before.

daves · 04-18-2020, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW

One of the teams I run, I just try to max out the defense. Like every position at 100 or over.

I know others have tried. In this concept, what is better (either your opinion or if you've tried):

1. A ballpark with the minimum possible offense - to make your team's defense give the opponent the worst possible venue to hit the ball in play...

2. A ballpark with the maximum possible offense - to make it so everyone gives up tons of runs, but by gum, your players will have an advantage snagging more hits away from the opponents than they might from you.

Also, has anyone experimented with low Stuff/High control pitchers to maximize balls in play?

The best might be neutral (1.000) hitting since your defense is so good, but minimize homers (0.90) since their defense range can't stop home runs.

Control pitchers seems better for your team since there is no defense for walks. Good movement pitchers generate more ground balls as well.

Feel free to change it up in different seasons (weeks).

BMW · 04-18-2020, 01:02 PM

My goal is experimental more than aspirational. I'm less trying to win a ton of games and more interested in how many games a team like that can win.

Think I might model something in the regular game to see how the same uber-defensive teams play in different parks.

dkgo · 04-18-2020, 01:29 PM

The better your team is the higher you want the park factors.

Everyone over 100 defensively isn't going to make up the offensive difference if they are all bronze types so you want to limit runs as much as possible.

If Mike Trout is your over 100 defender then you want to increase scoring.

Obviously if you just want to see how few runs you can allow your would take it down, or if you play all lefties/righties you would only boost those.

BMW · 04-18-2020, 01:38 PM

My general strategy as such is super casual and meant to entertain me for the whole year. I have no goal of trying to say, win Perfect, or win Diamond, win Gold, etc.

It's basically:

1. Let's get 90+ defenders everywhere. Don't care about the offense. See far the team progresses.
2. Let's get 100+ defenders everywhere. Don't care about the offense. See far the team progresses.
3. Start bringing in some okay pitchers. See far the team progresses.
4. Alternate between bringing in better pitchers or defenders with a similar level of fielding with better offense. See far the team progresses.

BMW · 04-18-2020, 02:49 PM

So I ran a sim with 4 teams, 15,000 games. Every player was maxed out in defense at every position, they all had the same hitting and pitching ratings (expecting .250 hitters with middling power, middling speed, and pitchers rated to also give up .250 hitters with middling power). Development turned off, trades turned off, aging turned off, personalities and owners turned off, etc.

Basically every team was identical and every player was identical, all with obnoxious defense.

The surprise I see is that one team was demonstrably better than the others, and it was the one at the total neutral ballpark.

May try something later where I play with one team of max defense players and another with a random historical team, and see how they do over several long sims with the max team at the different style parks.

OMGPuppies · 04-18-2020, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMW

So I ran a sim with 4 teams, 15,000 games. Every player was maxed out in defense at every position, they all had the same hitting and pitching ratings (expecting .250 hitters with middling power, middling speed, and pitchers rated to also give up .250 hitters with middling power). Development turned off, trades turned off, aging turned off, personalities and owners turned off, etc.

Basically every team was identical and every player was identical, all with obnoxious defense.

The surprise I see is that one team was demonstrably better than the others, and it was the one at the total neutral ballpark.

May try something later where I play with one team of max defense players and another with a random historical team, and see how they do over several long sims with the max team at the different style parks.

This is very interesting data. I guess that is good advice. Keep it neutral until you can clearly see it isn’t working.

Caedus · 04-18-2020, 07:11 PM

Minimum park factors I think can work with a high eye batting team. Though that can be tough to find in combination with good defense. I had a lot of high eye batters on my deadball park team in PTXX and I found that was more effective than when I had neutral factors.

SF Giants · 04-18-2020, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caedus

Minimum park factors I think can work with a high eye batting team. Though that can be tough to find in combination with good defense. I had a lot of high eye batters on my deadball park team in PTXX and I found that was more effective than when I had neutral factors.

I tried this strategy of walks (+homers) in defensive park in OOTP20 but there just weren't enough suitable players with high EYE, POWER and DEF and mainly players with high contact , high avoid K's and low power like Suzuki still performed much better...

Orion · 04-19-2020, 11:09 AM

I won 4 titles with a defense first team, we were typically in the teens for HR rankings, but basically modeled the ole 80's cardinals winning with hits, speed, and defense. I am not so sure that would work as well in '21. Power hitters are much more common.

chazzycat · 04-20-2020, 02:33 PM

Defense based teams should go for MAX AVG and GAP factors with minimum HR factors, in my opinion.

The park factor for AVG is really a factor for BABIP, and defense is the only way to beat BABIP. So you get more mileage out of an elite defense with the max AVG factors.

I'd reduce HR factor to minimum for the simple fact that you can't defend a homer. This also allows you to de-prioritize MOV a bit and get some more mileage out of your pitching staff by focusing on K/BB ratios.

04-17-2020, 11:53 PM	#1
BMW Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,030	Hyper defense team - which park would be better? One of the teams I run, I just try to max out the defense. Like every position at 100 or over. I know others have tried. In this concept, what is better (either your opinion or if you've tried): 1. A ballpark with the minimum possible offense - to make your team's defense give the opponent the worst possible venue to hit the ball in play... 2. A ballpark with the maximum possible offense - to make it so everyone gives up tons of runs, but by gum, your players will have an advantage snagging more hits away from the opponents than they might from you. Also, has anyone experimented with low Stuff/High control pitchers to maximize balls in play? __________________

04-18-2020, 02:23 AM	#2
OMGPuppies All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 1,627	I would go minimum park settings. Ex. Your offense is 1 their offense is 2. 2x2=4 while 2x1=2. The more you crank it up the bigger your disadvantage will grow. __________________

04-18-2020, 05:13 AM	#3
Marleigh All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: UK Posts: 541	I would use neither of those options, build a ground specific to your team. if you can't hit home runs turn home runs down and play small ball, if you have an all righty lineup turn up hitting factors for righty hitters and down for lefties and use all righty starting pitchers to try to benefit from that, investigate tactical options, build a strategy. You need more than just great D you also need an offensive plan, because regardless how many runs your opponents score you will need at least 1 to win games. __________________

04-18-2020, 07:21 AM	#4
Lemandria All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 702	The pitcher's park cuts all offense the same, minimum runs scored for both teams. The games tend to low scoring affairs where a very small advantage, walks for example, will add up over the full course of a season. So will speed. BUT all is not sunny. You've also minimized team income, PP is greatly reduced. And some of the greatest players in the game can hit .250 in deadball. Are you absolutely certain your pitchers are the right ones to win here? I'd go with a hybrid park, particularly if you haven't experienced any of this before. __________________ FOTF victim Farewell Last edited by Lemandria; 04-18-2020 at 07:28 AM.

04-18-2020, 01:02 PM	#6
BMW Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,030	My goal is experimental more than aspirational. I'm less trying to win a ton of games and more interested in how many games a team like that can win. Think I might model something in the regular game to see how the same uber-defensive teams play in different parks. __________________

04-18-2020, 01:29 PM	#7
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	The better your team is the higher you want the park factors. Everyone over 100 defensively isn't going to make up the offensive difference if they are all bronze types so you want to limit runs as much as possible. If Mike Trout is your over 100 defender then you want to increase scoring. Obviously if you just want to see how few runs you can allow your would take it down, or if you play all lefties/righties you would only boost those.

04-18-2020, 01:38 PM	#8
BMW Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,030	My general strategy as such is super casual and meant to entertain me for the whole year. I have no goal of trying to say, win Perfect, or win Diamond, win Gold, etc. It's basically: 1. Let's get 90+ defenders everywhere. Don't care about the offense. See far the team progresses. 2. Let's get 100+ defenders everywhere. Don't care about the offense. See far the team progresses. 3. Start bringing in some okay pitchers. See far the team progresses. 4. Alternate between bringing in better pitchers or defenders with a similar level of fielding with better offense. See far the team progresses. __________________

04-18-2020, 02:49 PM	#9
BMW Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,030	So I ran a sim with 4 teams, 15,000 games. Every player was maxed out in defense at every position, they all had the same hitting and pitching ratings (expecting .250 hitters with middling power, middling speed, and pitchers rated to also give up .250 hitters with middling power). Development turned off, trades turned off, aging turned off, personalities and owners turned off, etc. Basically every team was identical and every player was identical, all with obnoxious defense. The surprise I see is that one team was demonstrably better than the others, and it was the one at the total neutral ballpark. May try something later where I play with one team of max defense players and another with a random historical team, and see how they do over several long sims with the max team at the different style parks. Attached Images __________________ Last edited by BMW; 04-18-2020 at 02:53 PM.

04-18-2020, 07:11 PM	#11
Caedus Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 95	Minimum park factors I think can work with a high eye batting team. Though that can be tough to find in combination with good defense. I had a lot of high eye batters on my deadball park team in PTXX and I found that was more effective than when I had neutral factors. __________________

04-19-2020, 11:09 AM	#13
Orion Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 366	I won 4 titles with a defense first team, we were typically in the teens for HR rankings, but basically modeled the ole 80's cardinals winning with hits, speed, and defense. I am not so sure that would work as well in '21. Power hitters are much more common. __________________

04-20-2020, 02:33 PM	#14
chazzycat All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,685	Defense based teams should go for MAX AVG and GAP factors with minimum HR factors, in my opinion. The park factor for AVG is really a factor for BABIP, and defense is the only way to beat BABIP. So you get more mileage out of an elite defense with the max AVG factors. I'd reduce HR factor to minimum for the simple fact that you can't defend a homer. This also allows you to de-prioritize MOV a bit and get some more mileage out of your pitching staff by focusing on K/BB ratios.