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OOTP 20 - General Discussions Everything about the newest version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA. |
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#1 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
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Someday I hope the AI can "think" like this.
OK so just wanted to post a "strategy" spot that the AI misses which I think says something more general in how the AI "thinks". I'm not posting to criticize. I understand how difficult this stuff is to get right. Its more of a "wish list" of mine that someday this will be as obvious to the AI as it is to me.
So the basic premise here is that Kirilloff just got on first in the bottom of the 8th in a game they are leading 5-0. I have the strategy sliders for pinch running maxed. I have a defensive replacement slotted for Kirilloff to come in by the 8th inning or later. Kirilloff has an injury rating of "Fragile". The entire bench is available. Someday my hope is that the AI sees the "big picture" in spots like this and understands it as an obvious spot to pinch run to prevent your excellent hitting but injury prone first baseman from getting injured, especially since he is slated to come out for a defensive replacement in the top of the 9th anyways. |
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#2 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 913
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I agree. That would be fantastic. Not an expert but this does seem like a tough thing to code for though. I wonder if even in a more simplistic way if the AI considers injury rating when subbing late in a game. If the score isn't close and you have someone that is injury prone, substitute.
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#3 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 6,607
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Definitely an avenue to explore and as noted by both of you something that might be hard to get just right. That doesn't mean it can't \ shouldn't be done
![]() Maybe something that could be tied into manager tendencies so it's not the same across the board? Maybe could be added to individual player strategies, or is it already there? lol I play out my games so don't dig into that much other than forcing rest for some minor leaguers. Yes, were talking about the AI doing it so, maybe the AI could analyze it's players and use those "player strategies" too for situations like this? Again the goal to make it individualized and not the same across the board for all players. |
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#4 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
Here are a few strategies currently used by the AI in a MLB quick start which I believe fall outside the normal parameters of a modern day MLB manager. - Using a double switch to only move the pitching spot two places in the batting order - Sac bunting in the first inning with the reigning MVP just because he bats second. - pulling the infield in with the bases loaded and less than two outs when behind in the fifth inning (especially with a slow runner at the plate) - sac bunting in the 7th inning or later when down by more than one run - pulling pitchers, especially starters after they get the first out of an inning, sometimes even by strikeout without a corresponding injury There are others but these were the ones I could remember off the top of my head. None of these should be happening in a modern MLB quick start. Some of them may be more appropriate if playing historical or playing with a setup based on an era before 1990. I'm fine with individualism in mlb manager strategy as long as those choices fall within parameters that coincide with the parameters of current MLB managers. I just don't like it when a manager in my sim employs a strategy that fell out of favor even before guys like Wade Boggs started to be placed in the 2-hole of a batting order. How many times did Boggs sac bunt in the first inning in his career? |
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#5 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,782
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I'm not sure why you say especially starters when it comes to pulling a pitcher after he gets the first batter out.
Sometimes the pitcher is taken out after he gets the 1st out in an inning for a number of different reasons. Starters might reach pitch count limit or fatigue limit and it just happen to be after they got the first out in inning or the hitter may have been an ideal match-up but then opt for a reliever. And I guess you understand with relievers a little more, most because he's something of a specialist otherwise it wouldn't make a lot of sense to just bring in reliever for a single batter.
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#6 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 6,607
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Didn't come into this to argue about all of the possible situations. I actually came in to support your idea
![]() Tying it in with manager's tendencies is bad in what way? My thought here was if I can do it for individual players and the AI can't or won't, isn't the human being given an edge? I have an iron man and also a durable player that I would not take out in a 5-0 ballgame, maybe that's just me? Hell, I have a great LF that is fragile that I might not take out either at 5-0. I've seen many games that were "over" end up not as "over" as everyone thought. Seeing eye single, hit batter, bb, double and 3 score, followed by a 2 run homer. My Cubs ended up winning the WS in a game that was "over" until a manager's decision outside of real life parameters tried to give it away, aided by one of those strange type of innings. With that in mind I have no problem if manger A pinch runs, and manager B does not. |
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#7 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
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#8 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
How does your "iron man, durable guy" who you don't have a defensive replacement for have any bearing on anything I said? What did I say that would force the AI to sub for him? Do current MLB managers always sub for those guys when up five runs? I don't understand the point you are making with that example. As for your "games aren't over yet", I agree with you. Again, what did I say that made you believe otherwise? In fact, I have argued this very problem of the AI "giving up" too early when playing in modern day eras. I have seen many times where the AI over uses a long reliever in a five to zero playoff game and even sub for stars when they should be trying to win. Again, I complain because that very thing falls outside normal parameters for modern day managers. No one is subbing for their star in a 5-0 playoff game in order to rest him and no manager is using his long reliever in an elimination game until they are down 10+. But the AI in OOTP does the opposite. So you are arguing with me about things I agree with you on. |
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#9 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 6,607
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#10 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
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Its all good. I get pretty passionate about defending my ideas, especially when it involves my favorite sim for my favorite sport. No hard feeling since I believe we pretty much have the same goals.
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#11 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
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Game I just happened to finish is the perfect example of what I mean by "removing a starter after one out" "problem". No pitch count. Throwing a shutout. Only 104 pitches. He;s 26 yrs old and he's rated "Durable". Is there really a current MLB manager that would do this if he wasn't injured?
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#12 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Boston Ma.
Posts: 1,547
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I am just curious. Not being snarky or mean. (please don't blow me up). What is preventing you from managing your team. I understand if school/work/family gets in the way. I manage every game for my team except ST. It's a blast if it is your thing. I just started my third season with XX.I wish the AI could leearn my tendecies opposing and my team. Then maybe after 50 games you could switch to GM mode.
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#13 | |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
When I was young the closest I could come to this experience was playing out Strat-O-Matic games as the manager of both teams. I could become the manager of every team and play in commish mode but again that adds a bunch of time to my sims and I like the idea of owning/managing one team. OOTP is about 98% of the way to what I basically dreamed would someday be available back in 1981 when I was using my 1980 version of Strat and trying to play out every game for every team for the season. I basically have two wishes for this game. One is that I can play against an AI that is indistinguishable from a generic manager of the era and two is that I could be shown random box scores from MLB and OOTP and not be able to do better than 50/50 in picking out which is which. Until then I will continue to point out areas that I think can be improved upon. |
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#14 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 4,263
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Quote:
But hey, maybe someday. ![]()
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#15 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ban land in 3...2...
Posts: 2,943
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Quote:
It would have made more sense for him to not start the ninth than to face one hitter. Agreed. |
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