Tournaments General Discussion

[Renfro]

Originally Posted by One Great Matrix

One thing (out of more than one that might effectively do what you're aiming for (create a swing man)) you can do is set up a 5-man rotation...set rest to Always Start Highest Rested...and then they will forego the 5th man if the #1 is ready... If you are set on using #5 in SOME role if not starter then you can also turn on Allow SP in Relief, & pick whatever role you'd like for him out of the pen. Leaving the other 4 starters pen's role as None Specified often keeps them from being used in a relief role.

This actually worked for me over the course of 5 rounds in a Bo5 tourney. My rotation was Santana / Gomez / Martinez / Cooper / Fogg. Fogg had 1 start while the rest each had 5.

Fogg was actually lined up to start G1 of the semi-final round. Fogg's line that game: 5 IP 7 H 2 ER 2 BB 4 K 91 pitches. Though he didn't get the win (we would would score 3 in the 8th to eventually win the game), Fogg was actually named Player of the Game.

We lost the series and the team that beat us went on to win the tourney using, I kid you not, a 2 SP (Maddux and Walsh) / 7 RP (including 3 irons) strategy.

[Dogberry99]

Can someone please explain to me (preferably with small words so I might be able to understand it better) how the "If Starter Tired" usage option works in tournaments? What triggers it? I'm confused, because my starters are still playing even with a 50% fatigue rating, and this is very different from how the main game handles everything.

My starters aren't that much better than my bench, so why does my AI manager insist on riding them into the ground? Is there a setting somewhere that I'm missing?

Am I the only one frustrated by this?

[One Great Matrix]

I'm not sure, Dogberry, but I think it is supposed to work the same *except* they did say that they would use reserves but use the starters ANYWAY if it was an elimination game...(was that the case?)...apparently they are capable of playing through fatigue if that's the logic being used.

I'm not really sure how fatigue works in the game. All I know is my starters pitch fine but not for as long at 70% and a number of my starting position players have played just fine even at 0% red.

IDK, maybe they're compromised but they still play pretty well sometimes. I guess they aren't injured, and ...how exhausted can a pro baseball player get if he's not a pitcher?

[waittilnextyear]

Woo!

The Frogs advance to the 4th round of the 128-team "Thursday" Super Cap 1625/Hunt for 100 J.R. Richard. It took a 4-run outburst in the 14th inning of game 6, but I'll take it.

This tourney is probably the most impressive pod of whales I've seen (disclaimer: did not enter Perfect Pedro tourney). Must be breeding season. Although the 1625-cap means many of us have one hand tied behind our back, so to speak.

Teams left include a who's who: Blue Rocks, Trojans, Harvesters, Scorpions, Magpies, Crowns, Cube, Stone Island, Blue Hawks, Christians. Also some plucky upstarts with well-researched/lucky teams lacking the usual whale cards--the Southpaws, Melons, Browns, and Mets fall into this category. And then there are the tweeners like the Fighting Frogs and the Chiba Lotte Marines. The Marines took down the powerful Hillsboro Hops in 7 games in the previous round.

Whale teams that went out already? Quips, Bombers, Dodgers, Dynasty, Oilers, Kongs, Ghosts, Hops, Aqua Sox, 49ers, Glaziers, Colonels, Synthwave, Carnovres, Dolphins, Otters, Texans, and Direwolves. Such a brutal tourney.

My reward for getting to Round 4? A date with the Exeter Blue Hawks. The winner of this will play the winner of Stone Island/Trenton Christians for a ticket to the "final 4."

I'm not feeling tremendously confident because Exeter looks to have a better offense and 100 Cy/Walter/Maddux. Lots of these whale teams are totally punting on the bullpen and I am eager to see how that ends up going.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Can someone please explain to me (preferably with small words so I might be able to understand it better) how the "If Starter Tired" usage option works in tournaments? What triggers it? I'm confused, because my starters are still playing even with a 50% fatigue rating, and this is very different from how the main game handles everything.

My starters aren't that much better than my bench, so why does my AI manager insist on riding them into the ground? Is there a setting somewhere that I'm missing?

Am I the only one frustrated by this?

No. I asked about this same thing in another thread, but I didn't get an answer.

[waittilnextyear]

Frogs are down 3-2 with 66% rested Josh Fogg taking the bump and a totally gassed bullpen. lol. Going up against 100 Maddux. Insert thisisfine.gif

If we can somehow steal this one, it's my Walsh vs their Bullet Joe in G7.

EDIT: No such luck. Josh Fogg and the Frogs have died.

[neugey]

Over the last few days I've been thinking about it and I'm a little tired of trying to outthink and outduel the joneses in tournaments. I just want to have more fun and get immersed with a team, good or bad. So I decided to put together the first-ever Tournament Dynasty blog!

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by Orcin

No. I asked about this same thing in another thread, but I didn't get an answer.

I may remember seeing your post when I sober back up tomorrow. Until then, I'll be mildly drunk and mildly frustrated

[waittilnextyear]

Congrats to the Southpaws, a former OL team, for winning the 128-team Hunt for 100 J.R. Richard. Really impressive bit of whale slaying. Took out Vlad News Bears, Granma Phillies, Sexton Summit Purple Warriors, USC Trojans, Pawnee Harvesters, Collingwood Magpies, and Exeter Blue Hawks en route.

[steamrollers]

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

Congrats to the Southpaws, a former OL team, for winning the 128-team Hunt for 100 J.R. Richard. Really impressive bit of whale slaying. Took out Vlad News Bears, Granma Phillies, Sexton Summit Purple Warriors, USC Trojans, Pawnee Harvesters, Collingwood Magpies, and Exeter Blue Hawks en route.

Certainly a nice run but they still had perfect Waddell, Hubbell, R. Johnson and a cute little 4th piece in the rotation in Bender.



Hopefully the ootp team comes up with something quick to fix these cap tourneys which you simply can't compete in without whale level starting pitching. I don't blame anyone for taking advantage of tourneys like they are right now, if I had the ability to field a completely stacked rotation I would be doing the same thing to beat down on the little sisters of the poor. It is just a horrible look for tournaments for the time being.



I have already heard from numerous people who are discouraged and have all but given up on tourneys already. I have tried to talk people out of throwing in the towel and hang in there. It has taken a tremendous effort to get the tourneys up and running and for those taking a beating right now you need to just hang in there and give some time for changes to take place. Now if nothing happens in the coming weeks to fix cap tourneys then the frustrations would be warranted and tourneys would go down as an unmitigated disaster.

[dkgo]

seems like a bit of an overreaction

The cap tourneys I find pretty dumb given how rosters end up but there is good competition in silver and bronze. There are definitely enough options for everyone.

[bailey]

Fixing cap tourneys: I don't think they need to be fixed, but maybe the salary value of cards should change week to week depending on how often a card is used the previous week, similar to the way live players change in value during the regular season.

[dancariaz]

That's how you force a game 7, scoring a run in every single inning and shutting out the opponent

edit: and I lost game 7. Serves me right

[Morgans Magic]

I would love in the future for there to be a statistics option to see how your players are doing "overall" in tournaments. Just went back and added the stats for all my Bronze starting pitchers to see which are faring best - they've accumulated almost 300 innings some of them, so it's a sizable answer - and that's just since Monday!

[Barmy Fungy-Phipps]

Originally Posted by Morgans Magic

I would love in the future for there to be a statistics option to see how your players are doing "overall" in tournaments. Just went back and added the stats for all my Bronze starting pitchers to see which are faring best - they've accumulated almost 300 innings some of them, so it's a sizable answer - and that's just since Monday!

Since you are already doing a little of this, I have a question. I can get the stats from a tournament into my browser, and from there into a spreadsheet. If I import it there, is there an easy function that would automatically combine different stat lines from the same player into one? I know how to get it to sum that up if I put in the formulas and make sure it is organized by name, but I'm interested in getting that automated. Especially if I can add to it over time. The only way I can think to do it right now is a copy and paste job, and...ugh. Not sure it's worth the effort.

[waittilnextyear]

Originally Posted by steamrollers

Certainly a nice run but they still had perfect Waddell, Hubbell, R. Johnson and a cute little 4th piece in the rotation in Bender.



Hopefully the ootp team comes up with something quick to fix these cap tourneys which you simply can't compete in without whale level starting pitching. I don't blame anyone for taking advantage of tourneys like they are right now, if I had the ability to field a completely stacked rotation I would be doing the same thing to beat down on the little sisters of the poor. It is just a horrible look for tournaments for the time being.



I have already heard from numerous people who are discouraged and have all but given up on tourneys already. I have tried to talk people out of throwing in the towel and hang in there. It has taken a tremendous effort to get the tourneys up and running and for those taking a beating right now you need to just hang in there and give some time for changes to take place. Now if nothing happens in the coming weeks to fix cap tourneys then the frustrations would be warranted and tourneys would go down as an unmitigated disaster.

I disagree. I think the cap tourneys are working fine and that maybe competing in lower cap tourneys will be for some and higher cap tourneys for others. I have some good cards, but not like the top whales do. And I don't think anything's wrong with that.

[steamrollers]

Originally Posted by dkgo

seems like a bit of an overreaction

The cap tourneys I find pretty dumb given how rosters end up but there is good competition in silver and bronze. There are definitely enough options for everyone.

I agree it's an overreaction for some of those that have been saying they are going to be done with tourneys. We have to give time for adjustments to be made. The mode I think has been a huge hit and the obvious exploitation for some tourneys will likely be corrected.



There is nice competition in silver/bronze type tourneys but if you don't fix cap tourneys you will most likely lose a large base of participants that would like to at least have a chance to be able to use their couple of diamond or high gold cards at some point and not get led to slaughter at the hands of peak pedro, cy young, walter johnson, rube waddell every single cap tourney.



I think some ideas are to make some new cap tourneys with a ceiling like no cards over X amount basically taking away the guaranteed dominating 100 cards that play like they are 128 cards. I also think some cap tourneys with a floor on cards would be an interesting idea. So instead of just punting on numerous roster spots with a 40 you would need to have at least say a 55-60 card in those spots. Would make it much more difficult to just trot out the starting pitching formula we have all seen winning basically every cap tourney.


As it stands now lots of new players or lower tier players will only continue to be discouraged without changes and despite whales loving the chance to beat up on teams right now and just rolling in PP, cards and packs for the health of the game we should all want adjustments to be made and I have 100% confidence they will make some outstanding changes to tourneys in the near future.

[steamrollers]

Originally Posted by waittilnextyear

I disagree. I think the cap tourneys are working fine and that maybe competing in lower cap tourneys will be for some and higher cap tourneys for others. I have some good cards, but not like the top whales do. And I don't think anything's wrong with that.

I'm sure some disagree and almost all whales (not calling you a whale) won't want changes for obvious reasons but cap tourneys are simply not in a healthy spot right now. That is just the fact of the matter. In previous posts I have said you don't need to get rid of the current cap tourneys, let whales run wild if they want but additional restrictions on some new cap tourneys can open things up to lower level players.



Personally I don't understand how it can even be fun for some of the top whale rotations that are continually winning. There is just no drama and no doubt that they will have success. Then again everyone is different. I think competition is lots of fun but I know others want easy wins are like that kid we all knew growing up where if things don't go right or when picking teams they get picked last they get mad and tell everyone they are taking their ball and going home.

[El Jeffe]

This may have already been discussed, I don't have the time or interest to read the entire thread, but I am having real trouble getting into tournaments. I sign up and commence prepping a team, and before I have a chance to import half a line up, the tournament has started. I try picking tournaments with a wide open field but get the same result. I actually get a team submitted in time maybe one in three attempts. Often I just have the AI select squad and line ups.
I try to find tournaments that I already have a roster set for but that can be tough. All this hassle for mediocre prizes. I've lost a lot of interest in the entire game the past week or so, haven't even checked on my league.

[Barmy Fungy-Phipps]

Originally Posted by steamrollers

As it stands now lots of new players or lower tier players will only continue to be discouraged without changes and despite whales loving the chance to beat up on teams right now and just rolling in PP, cards and packs for the health of the game we should all want adjustments to be made and I have 100% confidence they will make some outstanding changes to tourneys in the near future.

I agree that adjustments can and will be made. I'm hoping useful discussion about it will help Marcus and co. to find some good options that will help bring balance.

I wanted to make a couple of observations that I think can be helpful in thinking about the capped tournaments.

I know I've faced my share of dominant starters. I've beaten some, and lost more. The way probability works, it is possible for me to beat any given team in one of the capped tournaments, but if I face that every single round it is inevitable that I'll get crushed at some point. The issue with the whale rosters isn't that it gives any one whale the advantage, but that it is impossible for a non-stacked team to run a full whale gauntlet for the entire tourney. It's that a whale will win, even if the odds aren't necessarily better for any particular whale.

Obviously people with stacked rosters have the open tourneys to enjoy using the absolute best cards that are out there. So part of the intent of the cap is assumed to be penalizing the heavy use of those cards. Currently the only way in the system is to lower the cap limit - I suspect that is already being considered. A 1500 has room for 7 perfect cards if you punt on the rest - still potentially dominant. They had a few with caps below 1300 last week - that would certainly help (max of about 3 perfects), but even then three perfect starters in the rotation would probably make mincemeat of the competition at that level.

There are lots of ideas about how to create heavier penalties. I know I've proposed a fluctuating value for the cards based off usage (or other factors), and some have proposed cutting off just the 100 level.

Another idea might be to double the point cost of every card above the base level for that tournament. So, one with an average of 65 would levy a cost of two points for every point value the card has about 65. Or triple it, perhaps - I haven't crunched any numbers to see how that would affect roster decisions. But that is all assuming there is a way to code that in the system, which I very much doubt.

My recommendation at this point would lower the caps in general (65 or 70 average seems just too generous), and put the work in for more sophisticated adjustments next year. In the meantime, silver and bronze have become the butter to my mashed potatoes. I'm pretty happy sticking with that and refining my teams at that level. My one request would be more iron only tournaments - a slate of those at the same frequency as silver or bronze and I'd have three levels to tinker with.