Farming Iron Leagues

downpat75 · 07-04-2019, 08:08 PM

Sorry in advance if this isn't the place for this topic or if it's already been covered.

I noticed a team in my Iron League .262 (this is my third season as the Idaho Chukars, made the playoffs in 2032) has like a super, super offense but they are purposely running out a terrible pitching staff with the exception of two aces, one a perfect 100 Bob Feller and the other a 100 Dwight Gooden. Basically the rest of their staff is sub 55 relievers (quite a few in the 40s).

They've (Apple Valley Warbirds) been in IrL for a bunch of years, looks like they got promoted once. Their offense is incredible with mostly 90s players and a few high 80s and a perfect Lou Gehrig.

I guess my question is: is this an on purpose strategy and if so is this a profitable (in the PP sense) way to play the game? Are they simply farming offensive achievements against lower level pitching staffs? Mostly I'm curious about PP gaining strategies and if this is a valid one it seems a little anathema to point of the game. I'd imagine they're using this squad to feed other teams. Is that required to improve other squads without paying money?

Anyway hopefully someone can shed some light on this, I'm enjoying the mode so far and haven't spent any real money yet, I'm wary of that if the system is being "gamed" or manipulated. I've attached a screenshot of the roster so people can see what I'm talking about!

Thanks!

Orcin · 07-04-2019, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downpat75

1. I guess my question is: is this an on purpose strategy and if so is this a profitable (in the PP sense) way to play the game? 2. Are they simply farming offensive achievements against lower level pitching staffs? Mostly I'm curious about PP gaining strategies and 3. if this is a valid one it seems a little anathema to point of the game.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No

This team should be reported in-game for suspected cheating because the developers cannot act on forum posts. They will decide if it is a violation of the ToS and take action if appropriate.

downpat75 · 07-04-2019, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. No

This team should be reported in-game for suspected cheating because the developers cannot act on forum posts. They will decide if it is a violation of the ToS and take action if appropriate.

Thanks for the speedy reply, I had suspected that this was a little fishy. I'll take your advice and report in game!

mcdog512 · 07-04-2019, 08:34 PM

Man, what is wrong with people....shaking my head.....is a sense of fair play limited to a subset of people....don't answer that, I already know.

dkgo · 07-04-2019, 08:49 PM

I don't mind playing the game to make points without moving up but you can't be that obvious playing everyone out of position and without a full pitching staff

It's just a massive flaw in the design of the game. People are going to try to earn currency, that is expected player behavior and it's the developers job to align incentives. Hopefully next year scraps promotion and just assigns teams based on how good they are

bailey · 07-04-2019, 11:16 PM

I don't see how that team doesn't promote, unless they purposely throw the division series. Be on the lookout for that, like all of a sudden in the division series the whole team is iron. I tried to build a powerful offense with junk pitching. It can't be a violation of the TOS to decide to NOT upgrade the pitching staff and just roll with the pitching you got out of your 6 starter packs.

dkgo · 07-04-2019, 11:20 PM

They aren't even in first place so there might not even be a division series to throw. Widespread downgrades right before the playoffs like that are intentional losing and should be dealt with as cheating, but simply playing all season with some bad players is fine to me

joehart · 07-04-2019, 11:42 PM

Question. If I have Gooden all the way to the 9th. Does the game sense my starter is still better than my reliever and keep him in (for a chance to finish the game) if that is the case? Or is he getting pulled and it is mostly
driven by stamina levels & strategy sliders?

I thought there was some type of determination made that included the level of ability as well as stamina level. Not sure though.
Maybe someone can check and see if the team in question has an extra high number of complete games by the high end starters.

Goliathus · 07-05-2019, 12:30 AM

From what I see, the AI coach will try to keep him in until a run is scored(assuming he gives out no run before that). After that, it's stamina, sliders and etc. Not sure if AI would keep him in in a low running game with base loaded, I'd assume the AI would think the situation is desperate enough and hook him knowing that a run is bound to go in.

Dogberry99 · 07-05-2019, 01:44 PM

Do they own better pitchers they aren't using, or have they just not bothered to invest in them? And while it is painful to see some of those cards listed as Middle Infielders, I myself have trained and played cards at alternate and defensively suboptimal positions for a number of legitimate reasons (as an aside, this is how we discovered the position rating calculator is inaccurate and Buddy Myer trains up to a better SS than 3B). In other words, while this is probably wrong, we need more context.

While not going anywhere close to the extreme of the OP, I have also been upgrading my offense while neglecting my pitching on my primary account. It helps keep me in leagues that are a bit lower than I'd otherwise be in. As a F2P team, being in higher leagues would severely limit the accrual of the points I need to both improve my team and complete missions.

OMGPuppies · 07-05-2019, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Do they own better pitchers they aren't using, or have they just not bothered to invest in them? And while it is painful to see some of those cards listed as Middle Infielders, I myself have trained and played cards at alternate and defensively suboptimal positions for a number of legitimate reasons (as an aside, this is how we discovered the position rating calculator is inaccurate and Buddy Myer trains up to a better SS than 3B). In other words, while this is probably wrong, we need more context.

While not going anywhere close to the extreme of the OP, I have also been upgrading my offense while neglecting my pitching on my primary account. It helps keep me in leagues that are a bit lower than I'd otherwise be in. As a F2P team, being in higher leagues would severely limit the accrual of the points I need to both improve my team and complete missions.

I totally follow the same strategy as you. I upgrade pitching last because pitching tends to help you win more than you should and advance you up the ladder too quickly.

Semtextual · 07-05-2019, 02:40 PM

Definitely gone for the optimal PP farming, Feller and Gooden must rack up huge points for him.

downpat75 · 07-05-2019, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Do they own better pitchers they aren't using, or have they just not bothered to invest in them? And while it is painful to see some of those cards listed as Middle Infielders, I myself have trained and played cards at alternate and defensively suboptimal positions for a number of legitimate reasons (as an aside, this is how we discovered the position rating calculator is inaccurate and Buddy Myer trains up to a better SS than 3B). In other words, while this is probably wrong, we need more context.

While not going anywhere close to the extreme of the OP, I have also been upgrading my offense while neglecting my pitching on my primary account. It helps keep me in leagues that are a bit lower than I'd otherwise be in. As a F2P team, being in higher leagues would severely limit the accrual of the points I need to both improve my team and complete missions.

Yes they own better pitchers on their reserve roster, many of them.

Kushiel · 07-05-2019, 07:15 PM

Report him in game if it appears to be cheating and let the Devs sort it out.

BigRed75 · 07-06-2019, 03:07 AM

Goliathus · 07-06-2019, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downpat75

Yes they own better pitchers on their reserve roster, many of them.

Then that's blatantly tanking, worthy of a report.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Not upgrading pitching is another story though. Players are free to choose how to upgrade their squad. If someone is playing 5 bronze SP and those are indeed his best pitchers, there's nothing wrong with that.

eldur00 · 07-06-2019, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goliathus

Then that's blatantly tanking, worthy of a report.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Not upgrading pitching is another story though. Players are free to choose how to upgrade their squad. If someone is playing 5 bronze SP and those are indeed his best pitchers, there's nothing wrong with that.

Is it though ?
First, the guy has a .622 W%...how is that tanking ?
Second, we know nothing of the other pitchers on the Reserve. Is he sitting perfect and diamonds ? Or just a bunch of interchangeable bronze pitchers that won't make a lick of a difference whether they are in the lineup or the Irons that are in there ?
Third, Markus himself went on record on these very forums stating that if you wanted to experiment with lesser cards/cards out of position, that it should be done at the lesser levels. You can't go lower than Iron.

Nothing to see here. The most hilarious part of this entire thread is the people that want the player to be reported would be the first ones to applaud him for spending money on the game to get those players if the OP would have instead started the thread to whine about somebody having perfects/Diamond players in their Iron league lineup.

dkgo · 07-06-2019, 01:27 PM

That is definitely not a team you need to spend money on to have by now. I agree with your overall post though, if someone wants to play .600 ball in iron forever then so what. It doesn't affect you, he bought the game and is just playing how he wants. Everyone's reason that tanking is bad is because it unbalanced the league that season when some teams get free wins, but here this guy is just an above average team.

Dogberry99 · 07-06-2019, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goliathus

Then that's blatantly tanking, worthy of a report.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Not upgrading pitching is another story though. Players are free to choose how to upgrade their squad. If someone is playing 5 bronze SP and those are indeed his best pitchers, there's nothing wrong with that.

One caveat to this is that it is perfectly allowable (within reason) to own significantly better pitchers that stay on your bench behind scrubs if the team is pursuing a specific theme. If it wasn't, then theme teams could never be collectors.

PocketsAintFull · 07-06-2019, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

That looks like great exercise to be fair

07-04-2019, 08:08 PM	#1
downpat75 Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5	Farming Iron Leagues Sorry in advance if this isn't the place for this topic or if it's already been covered. I noticed a team in my Iron League .262 (this is my third season as the Idaho Chukars, made the playoffs in 2032) has like a super, super offense but they are purposely running out a terrible pitching staff with the exception of two aces, one a perfect 100 Bob Feller and the other a 100 Dwight Gooden. Basically the rest of their staff is sub 55 relievers (quite a few in the 40s). They've (Apple Valley Warbirds) been in IrL for a bunch of years, looks like they got promoted once. Their offense is incredible with mostly 90s players and a few high 80s and a perfect Lou Gehrig. I guess my question is: is this an on purpose strategy and if so is this a profitable (in the PP sense) way to play the game? Are they simply farming offensive achievements against lower level pitching staffs? Mostly I'm curious about PP gaining strategies and if this is a valid one it seems a little anathema to point of the game. I'd imagine they're using this squad to feed other teams. Is that required to improve other squads without paying money? Anyway hopefully someone can shed some light on this, I'm enjoying the mode so far and haven't spent any real money yet, I'm wary of that if the system is being "gamed" or manipulated. I've attached a screenshot of the roster so people can see what I'm talking about! Thanks! Attached Images

07-04-2019, 08:34 PM	#4
mcdog512 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Pack Robert Gibson; November 9, 1935 – October 2, 2020 Posts: 2,339	Man, what is wrong with people....shaking my head.....is a sense of fair play limited to a subset of people....don't answer that, I already know. __________________

07-04-2019, 08:49 PM	#5
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	I don't mind playing the game to make points without moving up but you can't be that obvious playing everyone out of position and without a full pitching staff It's just a massive flaw in the design of the game. People are going to try to earn currency, that is expected player behavior and it's the developers job to align incentives. Hopefully next year scraps promotion and just assigns teams based on how good they are Last edited by dkgo; 07-04-2019 at 08:51 PM.

07-04-2019, 11:42 PM	#8
joehart All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,131	Question. If I have Gooden all the way to the 9th. Does the game sense my starter is still better than my reliever and keep him in (for a chance to finish the game) if that is the case? Or is he getting pulled and it is mostly driven by stamina levels & strategy sliders? I thought there was some type of determination made that included the level of ability as well as stamina level. Not sure though. Maybe someone can check and see if the team in question has an extra high number of complete games by the high end starters. __________________

07-05-2019, 12:30 AM	#9
Goliathus Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 449	From what I see, the AI coach will try to keep him in until a run is scored(assuming he gives out no run before that). After that, it's stamina, sliders and etc. Not sure if AI would keep him in in a low running game with base loaded, I'd assume the AI would think the situation is desperate enough and hook him knowing that a run is bound to go in. Last edited by Goliathus; 07-05-2019 at 12:31 AM.

07-04-2019, 11:16 PM	#6
bailey Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,366	I don't see how that team doesn't promote, unless they purposely throw the division series. Be on the lookout for that, like all of a sudden in the division series the whole team is iron. I tried to build a powerful offense with junk pitching. It can't be a violation of the TOS to decide to NOT upgrade the pitching staff and just roll with the pitching you got out of your 6 starter packs.

07-04-2019, 11:20 PM	#7
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	They aren't even in first place so there might not even be a division series to throw. Widespread downgrades right before the playoffs like that are intentional losing and should be dealt with as cheating, but simply playing all season with some bad players is fine to me

07-05-2019, 01:44 PM	#10
Dogberry99 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 1,328	Do they own better pitchers they aren't using, or have they just not bothered to invest in them? And while it is painful to see some of those cards listed as Middle Infielders, I myself have trained and played cards at alternate and defensively suboptimal positions for a number of legitimate reasons (as an aside, this is how we discovered the position rating calculator is inaccurate and Buddy Myer trains up to a better SS than 3B). In other words, while this is probably wrong, we need more context. While not going anywhere close to the extreme of the OP, I have also been upgrading my offense while neglecting my pitching on my primary account. It helps keep me in leagues that are a bit lower than I'd otherwise be in. As a F2P team, being in higher leagues would severely limit the accrual of the points I need to both improve my team and complete missions. __________________ "And, Masters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an [censored]." (Much Ado About Nothing 5.1.255-256) Primary Team Collection Rewards (Cards & Packs) F2P Theme Team Movers F2P Theme and Adam Schlesinger Memorial Team

07-05-2019, 02:40 PM	#12
Semtextual Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 40	Definitely gone for the optimal PP farming, Feller and Gooden must rack up huge points for him.

07-05-2019, 07:15 PM	#14
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,810	Report him in game if it appears to be cheating and let the Devs sort it out.

07-06-2019, 03:07 AM	#15
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,430	__________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

07-06-2019, 01:27 PM	#18
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	That is definitely not a team you need to spend money on to have by now. I agree with your overall post though, if someone wants to play .600 ball in iron forever then so what. It doesn't affect you, he bought the game and is just playing how he wants. Everyone's reason that tanking is bad is because it unbalanced the league that season when some teams get free wins, but here this guy is just an above average team.