Its not acceptable that historic stats are shown incorrect, please fix this

[bonalditaylor]

As the title says, its totally unacceptable that the stats like zr and war inflate after the season ends, totally throwing off historic stats making it harder to judge previous seasons.

[atabakin]

...Something about catching more flies with honey than with vinegar?

[StatMan22]

I posted about this in the bug reports forum, and did get a response: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=303440

While I don't quite share the OP's negative sentiment, it is a frustrating problem. There are some dramatic differences between actual WAR values I store in stats downloaded at the end of each season and the historical WAR values that are displayed in players' stat pages. Displayed values are almost always more positive than they should be:



It seems clear there's some issue beyond using different league values than the actual seasons.

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by atabakin

...Something about catching more flies with honey than with vinegar?

I was gonna say.... please?

[JanesAddctn]

With sugar on top

[Dogberry99]

I haven't looked at historic ZR, WAR, and other similar stats since well before 20. Paul Blair's ZR shouldn't shift 20+ points, from a small negative value in the current campaign to a massive positive value after the season is complete. I cannot rely on stats like this. They are completely useless to me.

[bonalditaylor]

Im pretty sure my Ozzie when from like 7 war to 10 war last year and his zr when up like 16 points to +34.8.

I agree its totally useless and some kind of fix needs to be made. Im no coder or whatever but I cant understand why a snapshot of the last seasons stats cant be captured and saved without a "correction", which I'll just refer to as a bug, it is what it is.

Edit: I now checked my Ozzie again and today it shows his war for last year at 9.4, it was showing 10.0 last time I looked at the start of this season. So it seems to me is also fluctuating during the season or something.

[One Great Matrix]

Everyone who follows WAR should know it's an abstract, relative value. We're talking a judgment on Wins Above Replacement... If total PA or RBI or other concrete values changed from another year, that would be a mistake.

Proof that it's an abstract number? There is no such thing as three-tenths of a win.

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by One Great Matrix

Everyone who follows WAR should know it's an abstract, relative value. We're talking a judgment on Wins Above Replacement... If total PA or RBI or other concrete values changed from another year, that would be a mistake.

Proof that it's an abstract number? There is no such thing as three-tenths of a win.

Babe Ruth's 182.4 lifetime WAR will still be 182.4 next year and the year after that. If the statistic was handled by the game, it would be recalculated and changed every season. Your problem is with the statistic itself while mine is with the game mismanaging the statistic.

[One Great Matrix]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Babe's WAR will remain in that neighborhood. The WAR statistic calculation varies, it varies in the game even more because if you are playing in a very different league/tier, (and there are far different levels of competition)… then WAR will vary. Babe's real-life WAR is based on his lifetime statistics and how much better they were than his peers. So it's relative,... and demonstratively abstract in OOTP PL because there are levels as different as leagues like A, AA, AAA & Majors.

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by One Great Matrix

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Babe's WAR will remain in that neighborhood. The WAR statistic calculation varies, it varies in the game even more because if you are playing in a very different league/tier, (and there are far different levels of competition)… then WAR will vary. Babe's real-life WAR is based on his lifetime statistics and how much better they were than his peers. So it's relative,... and demonstratively abstract in OOTP PL because there are levels as different as leagues like A, AA, AAA & Majors.

Babe's WAR will not remain in that neighborhood. Babe's WAR will remain EXACTLY at 182.4. That calculation is complete. My issue is that in the game, the calculation is never complete.

[One Great Matrix]

No, sir. It is a conceptual statistic. It is related to an imaginary baseline player & how much better a given player is than that player, how many wins he is likely to add to the team. In the game if the team changes levels then the same player will have a different WAR. Much like if the calculation for WAR changes (the comparison player, or baseline), the player ends up with a different WAR.

Babe Ruth career WAR listed as 162.1.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ruthba01.shtml

WAR v. 2.2 explained.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...xplained.shtml

[StatMan22]

Originally Posted by One Great Matrix

No, sir. It is a conceptual statistic. It is related to an imaginary baseline player & how much better a given player is than that player, how many wins he is likely to add to the team. In the game if the team changes levels then the same player will have a different WAR. Much like if the calculation for WAR changes (the comparison player, or baseline), the player ends up with a different WAR.

Babe Ruth career WAR listed as 162.1.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ruthba01.shtml

WAR v. 2.2 explained.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/a...xplained.shtml

In real-life, historical WAR values only change if the source changes their formula for it, as your link explains above. Babe Ruth's WAR will stay at exactly 162.1 at Baseball-Reference unless they change the formula.

In the game though, historical WAR values change because they're not storing the actual WAR values. The game substitutes in your current league averages in place of historical league averages, which dramatically distorts historical WAR figures, making them basically useless, especially if you're jumping or dropping through tiers.

Obviously, it would be better to store the actual historical WAR values. It's mis-leading to include historical WAR on player cards when they're known to be incorrect. Regardless of your opinions on the value of WAR as a statistic, it's a fact that WAR's behavior in PT does not match real-life.

[One Great Matrix]

Yeah, but players produce statistics in-game, in OOTP and PT is producing a WAR based on those IN-GAME statistics vs. the league you're in. Their may be a legitamite beef somewhere but that's what is going on. That's how WAR was produced to begin with, they are working with the real-life statistics whereas OOTP is producing a WAR for OOTP statistics. They have real life statistics in the game, if you right-click a player, there are ratings and career real-life stats. They have wOBA, I don't maybe they could include WAR but it is...a calculation based on other statistics that are there for you to look at.

[One Great Matrix]

Eddie Murray had a WAR rating of -0.1 in a league I was in 2 weeks ago... Believe me, in a bronze or silver league his WAR would have and SHOULD have been 2.0 or 3.0...but it's based on wins and he wasn't going to win many games in a league with many 100 DiMaggio's, Gehrig's, ...Bagwell's.

[One Great Matrix]

At least according to WAR. I mean...I don't dislike the statistic in particular? But it's kind of obvious that a guy could always have a great game or streak. But yeah, WAR is based on how well a player is doing relative to others in the league. This much is true.