FTP Experience in 19

[Mizzery]

My experience with 3 FTP teams in PT19 was that it was extremely easy to be competitive and get promoted through the first 3 levels, perhaps in hindsight, too easy.

Not counting the initial forced promotions that happened to my first team post launch, my second and third teams rarely spent more than 1 or 2 seasons at a time in the Bronze or silver levels, and while reaching the Gold playoffs was fairly easy, promotion speed from there was more hit and miss based on the whims of the playoff results.

Once you identify the typical lower cost players and target them in the AH (rookie Ichiro, JD Martinez, Corbin and Dierker, etc.), it is relatively easy to convert achievement points into quick card upgrades and improved team performance.

And then the walls hit on the promotion of gold to diamond. My experience is that a championship team at Gold is a 75-80 win team at Diamond, with the first challenge being the pitching staff that was dominant in silver and gold having 5.00 and over ERAs in diamond. At this level, it has been difficult to compete without a couple of historical diamond starters on staff.

For my one team that eked through the diamond playoffs and got prematurely promoted to perfect, it was one and done and an immediate relegation back down. This becomes the cycle that is difficult to break out of, where real upgrades cost 10-25k PP apiece, which is difficult to generate from achievements.

Curious to hear about other experiences- have you found that the gap between gold and diamond and diamond and perfect is a much bigger gap than between bronze and silver or silver and gold? Have you found that when the wheels come off in higher levels, it hits your pitching staff first before you see the impact on your starting lineup?

Trying to plan my PT 20 strategy, wondering whether it’s better to slow down the advancement rate in the first levels, and perhaps over invest in pitching early on?

[pappyzan]

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[QuantaCondor]

I personally had a ton of fun playing 3 FTP teams particularly because it's not that hard to be competitive as FTP if you make up for it with strategy and analytics. Last week, all three of my F2P teams (UCSB Quantum Condors/Minneapolis Gauchos/Santa Barbara Gophers) participated in the Perfect Leagues, and somehow the Minneapolis Gauchos pulled off a Perfect League World Series victory (and scored the highest run differential in my conference/2nd highest in the league, so it was no fluke). A F2P winning the highest level!

Granted, I did pull a 100 George Brett on that team which sold for 175k PP and funded a lot of my lategame upgrades, but even accounting for that my team was worth nowhere near what some of the other teams in the league were worth. The other two teams I fielded made it to Perfect and stayed there without needing a ridiculous pull, but I don't think it's possible for a F2P player to compete for a WS title at the highest level unless you rip something worth at least ~100k PP off a pack at some point. It's definitely possible to get to Perfect and stay there, though.

I think it just speaks to how well put together the system is. I've played basically all the major Ultimate Team modes, and the lack of powercreep, lack of grinding, and complete viability of F2P as an approach in Perfect Team really makes it worth playing. And that's before adding in tournaments

[Kushiel]

When you are making a lot more PP at lower level save enough to get pitching. Then when you have made more PP get more pitching. The quicker you can get the right low 90 historical starters easing into your rotation the sooner your life will improve. Pitching earns PP at every level if you have it. There are low diamond starters that with Treinen will keep you in Perfect after they get you there. But you can't spend every 2k you make for a quick fix somewhere. But everybody has their own idea and they probably all work.

[HiDesertAce]

for me perfect level was a real eye opener. gold level and even diamond level it was easy to field competive teams.


if you aren't going to spend a 1000 dollars on a team at perfect level you have to either get lucky with pulls OR tweak park factors and go with an agains the grain strategy.


no matter what you have to have elite pitching at perfect level. and it won't matter who is in your bullpen....they will get rocked on the reg.


i had a lot more fun at bronze.silver.gold. got to experiment with different cards and use players that i was personally a fan of like thurman munson, pete rose etc.



at perfect level just about everyone has betts and trout because they have to. it ges boring. and you can't really swap out cards unless you want to spend lots of money. the auction house vig will get you in the end if you churn cards.



looking forward to starting over in 20 and going slower to reach perfect level.

[bailey]

I have the opposite view. Focus on hitting and ignore pitching and defense, because hitting gets you more PP without getting promoted. Pitching will get you some PP, but you will also promote faster and the whole point is to linger at the lower levels collecting PP. When I got some PP, I bought Betts then some more diamond hitters, although my star was M. Alou OVR 64 who got more than 14K by himself. Finally my hitters were so good, I couldn't help but make the playoffs, but my poor pitching kept losing in the playoffs. But while in bronze (10 seasons) I got dozens of all-star awards and great bat awards, MVP and HR champion awards. Then there were the slugfest awards and comeback awards (due to poor pitching). If I didn't make 20k per week, I was disappointed. Now I'm stuck in Gold, but I've started to add some pitching R. Johnson 97 and Smoltz for example.

[Izz]

I've just been playing 1 team, FTP, and have made perfect for the first time this season. I missed out on all the promotion rushes, so to be promoted I've had to either be top 4 or top 2.

I didn't find the difference between gold and diamond that large (I was at diamond level for 5 seasons and made the playoffs each season), but the transition to perfect is really big, imo. Not pitching-wise, interestingly enough. My pitching staff is holding its own, bullpen too; it's my hitting that is the issue. I knew this would be the case, though, as I struggled to score consistently at diamond level, and could only afford one offensive upgrade at the end of last season.

Still, this season I'm just happy to be at perfect level, and will be interested to see if I can avoid relegation.

[Orcin]

I think it is pointless to discuss money spent - the evaluation should be made on points spent. It doesn't matter how you obtained the points.

It takes at least 500,000 points to build a competitive Perfect Leagues team. You could probably be competitive in Diamond for 100,000 points.

The gold to diamond gap is far less than the diamond to perfect gap.

[Mizzery]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I think it is pointless to discuss money spent - the evaluation should be made on points spent. It doesn't matter how you obtained the points.

It takes at least 500,000 points to build a competitive Perfect Leagues team. You could probably be competitive in Diamond for 100,000 points.

The gold to diamond gap is far less than the diamond to perfect gap.

As a FTP player, I have no objection to players that purchase PP. After all, it is my choice to not purchase the points, but I am free to do so- it's not like there are restrictions in place in the game that force anyone to play one way or the other.

Having said that, you are wrong that how points are spent is material, and how money is spent is pointless, because the key element is time. If a smart FTP owner and a smart money owner both evaluate and recognize the same 15,000 point pitcher, the FTP player must wait, perhaps three or more seasons, to accrue enough points to pay for that player. The money player can purchase that player at anytime they choose to buy the points.

The FTP player by definition must play the long game, while the money player is only restricted by the amount of investment they wish to make. They are playing the same game, but at a completely different pace.

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by Mizzery

The FTP player by definition must play the long game, while the money player is only restricted by the amount of investment they wish to make. They are playing the same game, but at a completely different pace.

FTP players have another game they can play - the lottery. Scoring an elite historic card from a pack can net a significant amount of points that will vault a FTP team light years ahead of their peers. As the Auction House crashes, the payouts for being this lucky are diminishing however.

[QuantaCondor]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

FTP players have another game they can play - the lottery. Scoring an elite historic card from a pack can net a significant amount of points that will vault a FTP team light years ahead of their peers. As the Auction House crashes, the payouts for being this lucky are diminishing however.

One crucial point of emphasis: In my opinion, no FTP player should be spending actual PP on pack buying. It's important for a FTP to hit something reasonable in packs in order to vault into competitive play, but those packs should be solely the twice-weekly offline play PT packs. The EV of ripping packs is just terrible, and the most effective FTP strategy is to spend every last point of PP income wisely.

Originally Posted by Orcin

I think it is pointless to discuss money spent - the evaluation should be made on points spent. It doesn't matter how you obtained the points.

It takes at least 500,000 points to build a competitive Perfect Leagues team. You could probably be competitive in Diamond for 100,000 points.

The gold to diamond gap is far less than the diamond to perfect gap.

I agree that PP value is the right way to think about it, but I think the bar is a lot lower. My Perfect League World Series-winning team has a cost of ~250k PP at current market prices, and I think it could reasonably compete for WS shots on a regular basis based on their performance and run differential. Another team, costing ~200k PP, could arguably compete for a WS after nabbing a wild card berth or division title in an off year. The final team, costing ~100k PP, is going to hover around .500 or so and probably won't ever make the playoffs, but they're also in no threat of being relegated. All of these teams would also completely steamroll any diamond league. I think you can generically dominate most any Perfect League with a 500k PP roster, but by no means is that the lower bound on being able to compete for PL World Series trophies.

[Orcin]

By competitive, I mean able to consistently be in the playoffs, not get lucky once. Let me know when you beat the AquaSox.

[HRBaker]

But consistently being in the playoffs requires a top-notch team. If your process to get there is real money, it's a lot quicker. If your process to get there is no or little money, it's possible but will take a lot longer.

If this discussion is about speeding up the process for people NOT spending money, I think we have a non-starter. A slower buildup is the consequence of finding other ways to accomplish the same thing that money buys up front.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

But consistently being in the playoffs requires a top-notch team. If your process to get there is real money, it's a lot quicker. If your process to get there is no or little money, it's possible but will take a lot longer.

If this discussion is about speeding up the process for people NOT spending money, I think we have a non-starter. A slower buildup is the consequence of finding other ways to accomplish the same thing that money buys up front.

That's not what the discussion is about at all. Here is the subject of the discussion, from the original post...

Originally Posted by Mizzery

Curious to hear about other experiences- have you found that the gap between gold and diamond and diamond and perfect is a much bigger gap than between bronze and silver or silver and gold? Have you found that when the wheels come off in higher levels, it hits your pitching staff first before you see the impact on your starting lineup?

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by Orcin

That's not what the discussion is about at all. Here is the subject of the discussion, from the original post...

Some of these discussions have a measurable amount of overlap, and I was still thinking about another thread when I posted that. Consider it posted in the wrong thread.

[Mizzery]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

Some of these discussions have a measurable amount of overlap, and I was still thinking about another thread when I posted that. Consider it posted in the wrong thread.

I think all of these elements are in fact connected. As the OP, the intention was to ask about FTP strategies to make the leap from Gold to Diamond and Diamond to Perfect less painful and more successful, such as over investing in starting pitching, for example.

FTP requires more time and patience, and there is lower tolerance for error. Exceptional defensive players, for example, are far cheaper to acquire than the highest rated offensive players, most of whom are historical diamonds that a FTP owner will never own unless they pull one from a pack. Does it make sense, then, to field a high level defensive team, change the park factors to minimize home runs, buy affordable high MOV pitchers, etc.?

I know from experience that a strategy like that works through Gold and perhaps Diamond, but can it work at Perfect, or is the talent disparity among teams too high?

IMO, these are all interrelated questions on strategy and the effective utilization of PP, since it all comes from the same source- over x weeks I will accumulate x points, how do I best use them?

As an example, this weekend in OOTP 20, new teams will be sorted out into three tiers of Iron, Bronze and Silver based on preliminary pool results. Given the element of time, does it make sense for FTP players to want to be sorted into iron, while money players may want to skip the two lower levels and go right into silver?

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by QuantaCondor

One crucial point of emphasis: In my opinion, no FTP player should be spending actual PP on pack buying. It's important for a FTP to hit something reasonable in packs in order to vault into competitive play, but those packs should be solely the twice-weekly offline play PT packs. The EV of ripping packs is just terrible, and the most effective FTP strategy is to spend every last point of PP income wisely.



I agree that PP value is the right way to think about it, but I think the bar is a lot lower. My Perfect League World Series-winning team has a cost of ~250k PP at current market prices, and I think it could reasonably compete for WS shots on a regular basis based on their performance and run differential. Another team, costing ~200k PP, could arguably compete for a WS after nabbing a wild card berth or division title in an off year. The final team, costing ~100k PP, is going to hover around .500 or so and probably won't ever make the playoffs, but they're also in no threat of being relegated. All of these teams would also completely steamroll any diamond league. I think you can generically dominate most any Perfect League with a 500k PP roster, but by no means is that the lower bound on being able to compete for PL World Series trophies.

Please elaborate on this twice-weekly thing you're mentioning. There's a way to get two free packs every two weeks or two free packs every week offline? If this can be done I need to start doing this but don't know how

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Please elaborate on this twice-weekly thing you're mentioning. There's a way to get two free packs every two weeks or two free packs every week offline? If this can be done I need to start doing this but don't know how

If you play the main game in challenge mode you occasionally get a free pack from achievements.

They meant it to be a small reward for people who play challenge mode, which has more strict rules like no commissioner mode (no cheating basically).

But they left it enabled for historic leagues as well, so everyone just started replaying the 1927 Yankees season twice a week. (There is a 3 day cooldown).

[Thalion]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Please elaborate on this twice-weekly thing you're mentioning. There's a way to get two free packs every two weeks or two free packs every week offline? If this can be done I need to start doing this but don't know how

You can earn packs by playing the regular OOTP game in Challenge mode. There is a possibility of earning a pack whenever yu get an achievement. Once you earn a pack, a 3 day cool down period starts. When that ends, you're eligible to earn another pack. Note that the pack doesn't have to be earned on the same save the first pack was earned.

Oops. Ninja'd

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Please elaborate on this twice-weekly thing you're mentioning. There's a way to get two free packs every two weeks or two free packs every week offline? If this can be done I need to start doing this but don't know how

If you start a historical game in regular OOTP as GM and sim through you can get a free pack every 3rd or 4th day. It might take more than one season so it can be a grind. If you play alot of challenge mode anyway and have a good team it will happen naturally. You have to be signed in and when you create your historical game enable challenge mode. Lots of people use the 27 Yankees to ensure lots of achievements. They are what trigger a free pack.


edit: Double Ninja'd.