Strange pitcher usage in postseason

[Dyzalot]

Had this happen recently and I have no explanation as to why. This is game 6 of the World Series and we are down 3-2. Stephen Gonsalves was the scheduled starter for game seven . As you can see by the screenshot, when the AI decided to make a pitching change, there were three rested relievers available, yet it chose the game 7 starter to pitch instead of someone from the bullpen. I included my strategy settings just to show there's nothing weird there.

[Bluenoser]

How do you know he was the next games starter?

Don't assume that because his name was next in the listed rotation that the AI was going to start him, especially in the playoffs. The AI will often use someone different once the next day actually comes along (when the in game date changes).

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

How do you know he was the next games starter?

Don't assume that because his name was next in the listed rotation that the AI was going to start him, especially in the playoffs. The AI will often use someone different once the next day actually comes along (when the in game date changes).

Or is this your team and you had him scheduled to start? If so, is the AI in control of your pitching changes, rotation, etc? If you let the AI manage the game, it may use a starter in that situation (must win).

It is my team and the only pitchers left in the rotation were the game 6 and game 7 starters. And yes, I'm fine with the use as a "must win" if every other pitcher had been used. You don't use your game seven starter when you have several relievers available. I don't manage my games, I only sim. I observe a few games per year in the regular season and all postseason games.

[NoOne]

there's a setting 'somewhere' that prevents SP used as RP. finite space to look -- left side of stats and ai tab? options tab? etc nder league settings and if not thre under global/game settings. maybe that will help? maybe playoffs is its own beast, like ST? either way, there is a setting that directly relates, i'm fairly certain.

edit: i see from post below it's a per team pitching depth chart setting, oops... lol.

[Matt Arnold]

There's some tough balance. Right now, if you're in an elimination game, we do switch to an "all hands on deck" model. I mean, if you lose the game, there's no tomorrow, so you want your best pitchers. I believe right now we have it set up so that if you're leading in the game,we try to avoid using your next starter, but if trailing, we can use them.

But I do also agree that spoiling your G7 starter kinda puts you behind the 8-ball even more. I believe for next year we will at least respect your "allow SP in bullpen" setting even in these situations, and we will also look a little more at the logic involved. We probably should change it to only throw your SP there if he is way way better than anyone else, and you desperately need him in that spot.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

There's some tough balance. Right now, if you're in an elimination game, we do switch to an "all hands on deck" model. I mean, if you lose the game, there's no tomorrow, so you want your best pitchers. I believe right now we have it set up so that if you're leading in the game,we try to avoid using your next starter, but if trailing, we can use them.

But I do also agree that spoiling your G7 starter kinda puts you behind the 8-ball even more. I believe for next year we will at least respect your "allow SP in bullpen" setting even in these situations, and we will also look a little more at the logic involved. We probably should change it to only throw your SP there if he is way way better than anyone else, and you desperately need him in that spot.

I agree with having that pitcher available as a last resort. I just don't think he should be considered as an option equal to other relievers available. Even during the regular season with the "don't use starters in relief" option selected, won't the AI use a starter in relief if it has run out of all other pitchers? That seems like what should happen in this spot as well. Also, if the AI is able to look at the staff and determine if there is more than one starter who will be rested enough to pitch a potential game seven, then it might be more willing to "spoil" the scheduled game 7 starter by using him in relief as opposed to if it is able to tell that he would be the only available option for a start. Not sure how programmable "forethought" is for the OOTP AI.

Perhaps even going so far as to have the AI calculate odds of winning the current series by using the game 7 starter in relief right now vs not using him to save for the potential start. Is that something the AI can calculate on the fly like that, in the middle of a game?

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I agree with having that pitcher available as a last resort. I just don't think he should be considered as an option equal to other relievers available. Even during the regular season with the "don't use starters in relief" option selected, won't the AI use a starter in relief if it has run out of all other pitchers? That seems like what should happen in this spot as well. Also, if the AI is able to look at the staff and determine if there is more than one starter who will be rested enough to pitch a potential game seven, then it might be more willing to "spoil" the scheduled game 7 starter by using him in relief as opposed to if it is able to tell that he would be the only available option for a start. Not sure how programmable "forethought" is for the OOTP AI.

Perhaps even going so far as to have the AI calculate odds of winning the current series by using the game 7 starter in relief right now vs not using him to save for the potential start. Is that something the AI can calculate on the fly like that, in the middle of a game?

The problem with this theory is it just doesn't happen. When you're in an elimination game, everyone is available.

It's easy to say he's the game 7 starter, except there is no game 7 until you win game 6.

Watch the real WS - when a team is trailing 3-2 in games, the team that is trailing does not have their game 7 starter already named before game 6 is decided.

In the above scenario, irl, there is no way you would know who's starting game 7 of the WS when game 6 isn't over. No manager is going to say Pitcher A is the game 7 starter when he hasn't won game 6 yet. They may have an idea who they want to start, they may even have someone penciled in, but it's never a sure thing.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

The problem with this theory is it just doesn't happen. When you're in an elimination game, everyone is available.

It's easy to say he's the game 7 starter, except there is no game 7 until you win game 6.

Watch the real WS - when a team is trailing 3-2 in games, the team that is trailing does not have their game 7 starter already named before game 6 is decided.

In the above scenario, irl, there is no way you would know who's starting game 7 of the WS when game 6 isn't over. No manager is going to say Pitcher A is the game 7 starter when he hasn't won game 6 yet. They may have an idea who they want to start, they may even have someone penciled in, but it's never a sure thing.

What are you talking about? If you only have one starter who will be rested enough, assuming he doesn't pitch in game 6, then he's the game 7 starter. He should be the last pitcher off the bench in game 6. If you have more than one pitcher rested enough for game 7 then they are both available until one has been used, then the other one becomes the last pitcher off the bench. This isn't rocket science and this is exactly the kind of thinking managers and front offices would be doing.

As for your "they don't have the pitcher named" comment, I refuse to believe that you are that naive. That is just something they say to the media so they can keep their intentions in game six "close to the vest". I mean if they name the only lefty on their staff as the game 7 starter then the other team can game plan for not having to worry about facing a lefty reliever in game 6. Obviously the team in question is quite aware of who they expect to pitch game 7 unless they have more than one option. However, in OOTP, the AI usually only has one or two pitchers on the entire staff that would be rested enough to start. These would be the two pitchers who started games three and four. Therefore, once one of them is used in game six the other one becomes the game seven starter by default.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

What are you talking about? If you only have one starter who will be rested enough, assuming he doesn't pitch in game 6, then he's the game 7 starter. He should be the last pitcher off the bench in game 6. If you have more than one pitcher rested enough for game 7 then they are both available until one has been used, then the other one becomes the last pitcher off the bench. This isn't rocket science and this is exactly the kind of thinking managers and front offices would be doing.

As for your "they don't have the pitcher named" comment, I refuse to believe that you are that naive. That is just something they say to the media so they can keep their intentions in game six "close to the vest". I mean if they name the only lefty on their staff as the game 7 starter then the other team can game plan for not having to worry about facing a lefty reliever in game 6. Obviously the team in question is quite aware of who they expect to pitch game 7 unless they have more than one option. However, in OOTP, the AI usually only has one or two pitchers on the entire staff that would be rested enough to start. These would be the two pitchers who started games three and four. Therefore, once one of them is used in game six the other one becomes the game seven starter by default.

What am I talking about?

The front office doesn't decide the rotation, the manager does. And the manager doesn't announce the game 7 starter before game 6 when he's trailing 2-3 in the series. Everyone is available in game 6. He'll decide the game 7 starter if/when he wins game 6. That's what I'm talking about.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

What am I talking about?

The front office doesn't decide the rotation, the manager does. And the manager doesn't announce the game 7 starter before game 6 when he's trailing 2-3 in the series. Everyone is available in game 6. He'll decide the game 7 starter if/when he wins game 6. That's what I'm talking about.

I guess you haven't heard of the Los Angeles Dodgers then.

[LK3185]

Teams irl now they use possbily the next game starter to win a game but its usually not when they're down unless i forget a clear example... I mean, i've see Kershaw, Price come in when up to try to close a game out. Starters are defintely being used more in relief.

Should probably be a confidence setting though in OOTP. Only down 1, don't bring the game 7 starter in unless we have bum relief.'