Player Options - 100% opt-out rate

kaykills · 12-12-2018, 11:47 PM

I am assuming this may not be a bug, but I am looking for help in figuring out if a setting is causing this.

I recently took over as commish in an online league and we have gone though our 6 year history and have determined that out of 140 player options, every single player has opted out of their contract. The salaries range from very small to very large.

We have no idea why it's happening and are looking for a bit of direction.

Thanks!
Michael

Drstrangelove · 12-13-2018, 11:25 AM

Not my experience but just a thought. I have many players that choose not to opt out.

However, the "cause" for players that do opt out, ime, is typically if not exclusively money. So, if a league has high inflation, most players if not every player should want to opt out anything that originally looked like a "fair" contract. In my league we set inflation to zero and left pretty much every financial setting at default. (We allow ticket price increases with a base of $25, but not park size increases. Merchandise and Media contracts are locked. Market size and fan interest began at default and fluctuates according to game mechanics.)

If these are being changed and team budgets are growing, then the league will have inflation. Inflation will cause increased contract demands and that will cause players to deem a current deal to be less attractive. Voila!

(A more obvious but far less common issue would be if the original contracts were mostly "low-balled." In that case, even with zero inflation, players would still opt out. Same effect, different cause.)

kaykills · 12-15-2018, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drstrangelove

Not my experience but just a thought. I have many players that choose not to opt out.

However, the "cause" for players that do opt out, ime, is typically if not exclusively money. So, if a league has high inflation, most players if not every player should want to opt out anything that originally looked like a "fair" contract. In my league we set inflation to zero and left pretty much every financial setting at default. (We allow ticket price increases with a base of $25, but not park size increases. Merchandise and Media contracts are locked. Market size and fan interest began at default and fluctuates according to game mechanics.)

If these are being changed and team budgets are growing, then the league will have inflation. Inflation will cause increased contract demands and that will cause players to deem a current deal to be less attractive. Voila!

(A more obvious but far less common issue would be if the original contracts were mostly "low-balled." In that case, even with zero inflation, players would still opt out. Same effect, different cause.)

This makes total sense, however in our case, we have inflation set to 0. Our media contract and ticket prices are fixed for every team. Even our superstar quality typical salary is set to $20m which I think is default.

I was thinking of just banning options and levying a fine for teams that use them. I would rather not do this as we'd need to manually verify each contract.

If anyone has any other thoughts, it would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Matt Arnold · 12-15-2018, 02:50 PM

You can disable opt-outs in the league settings, but player/team options there are no flags for those.

Players will try to determine market value when opting out. If you notice cases of horrible opt-out decisions, please do let us know, but each case is taken on an individual basis, so it's not like we have a "target" for 50% opt-outs or anything like that.

The most likely reason that players are opting out are that teams are just not offering enough money post opt-out for them to want to stay around. I don't know - I'm guessing league owners have probably decided that giving a player an opt-out with a low salary afterward makes the player like the deal more, where there's very little risk in having them accept the decision. Give a role player, or an older declining player, a large option, and they will definitely stay with their deal.

kaykills · 12-16-2018, 01:15 PM

Matt thanks for the comments. The problem that is happening in our league is that GM's are now making offers in the off season by ballooning that last year as a player option with a much higher salary then the other years, giving them a better chance to sign that FA, and at this point they know the player is going to opt out. Yes, we have loosely talked about turning off all options, however I thought we'd see if we could fix the initial issue.

One of our GM's made a doc with more than half of our opt-outs (he ran out of time to do all 140).

There are 85 examples of our players opting out. He has added his own algorithm as to whether or not it was the right decision or not, however all the numbers are there to see. If you have a chance to take a look at it, it's pretty compelling. At worst, we could all agree that our players have probably the worst agents in the history of sports.

Thanks,
Michael

Matt Arnold · 01-08-2019, 03:18 PM

Hey, sorry I missed this before. Definitely agree there seem to be some pretty suspect decisions there. If you can give a link to the league file (ideally if you're nearing the end of the season, but anytime can work I'm sure) then I can have a deeper look to see if there's something weird in the league going on.

kaykills · 01-08-2019, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Hey, sorry I missed this before. Definitely agree there seem to be some pretty suspect decisions there. If you can give a link to the league file (ideally if you're nearing the end of the season, but anytime can work I'm sure) then I can have a deeper look to see if there's something weird in the league going on.

Hey Matt. Thank you for replying. Our league file can be downloaded here :

https://statsplus.net/skylinebasebal...nebaseball.zip

You can login as guest and pull down the latest file. If you need other info feel free to DM me (accountsdata file).

Thank you for the time. Very much appreciated.

Matt Arnold · 01-08-2019, 05:07 PM

Okay, I did have another look, and I think part of the problem is with the league option to prevent opt-outs. It looks like there might be a bug where if that's disabled, then players will always opt-out of player options. So I think for now, you're going to want to enable opt-outs, and then I believe you should see players keeping their player options.

kaykills · 01-08-2019, 05:37 PM

Holy cow Matt. I actually don’t even know whether this is a good thing or not based on the uproar it’s gonna cause when I implement it.

I will test it out and sim ahead on a backup to see if players start exercising some of the options.

Thank you so much for the help. We really appreciate it.

Michael

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

12-12-2018, 11:47 PM	#1
kaykills Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 66	Player Options - 100% opt-out rate I am assuming this may not be a bug, but I am looking for help in figuring out if a setting is causing this. I recently took over as commish in an online league and we have gone though our 6 year history and have determined that out of 140 player options, every single player has opted out of their contract. The salaries range from very small to very large. We have no idea why it's happening and are looking for a bit of direction. Thanks! Michael __________________ Commissioner : Skyline Baseball League (2005-2032) Los Angeles Dodgers GM : Skyline League (2000-2028) Memphis Blues GM : Skyline League (2030-2032) Colorado Rockies GM : Skyline League (2037-present) Bloordale Benedicts GM : National Dynasty League (2087-present)

12-13-2018, 11:25 AM	#2
Drstrangelove Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 346	Not my experience but just a thought. I have many players that choose not to opt out. However, the "cause" for players that do opt out, ime, is typically if not exclusively money. So, if a league has high inflation, most players if not every player should want to opt out anything that originally looked like a "fair" contract. In my league we set inflation to zero and left pretty much every financial setting at default. (We allow ticket price increases with a base of $25, but not park size increases. Merchandise and Media contracts are locked. Market size and fan interest began at default and fluctuates according to game mechanics.) If these are being changed and team budgets are growing, then the league will have inflation. Inflation will cause increased contract demands and that will cause players to deem a current deal to be less attractive. Voila! (A more obvious but far less common issue would be if the original contracts were mostly "low-balled." In that case, even with zero inflation, players would still opt out. Same effect, different cause.) Last edited by Drstrangelove; 12-13-2018 at 11:35 AM.

01-08-2019, 05:37 PM	#9
kaykills Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 66	Holy cow Matt. I actually don’t even know whether this is a good thing or not based on the uproar it’s gonna cause when I implement it. I will test it out and sim ahead on a backup to see if players start exercising some of the options. Thank you so much for the help. We really appreciate it. Michael Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Commissioner : Skyline Baseball League (2005-2032) Los Angeles Dodgers GM : Skyline League (2000-2028) Memphis Blues GM : Skyline League (2030-2032) Colorado Rockies GM : Skyline League (2037-present) Bloordale Benedicts GM : National Dynasty League (2087-present)

12-15-2018, 02:50 PM	#4
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,062	You can disable opt-outs in the league settings, but player/team options there are no flags for those. Players will try to determine market value when opting out. If you notice cases of horrible opt-out decisions, please do let us know, but each case is taken on an individual basis, so it's not like we have a "target" for 50% opt-outs or anything like that. The most likely reason that players are opting out are that teams are just not offering enough money post opt-out for them to want to stay around. I don't know - I'm guessing league owners have probably decided that giving a player an opt-out with a low salary afterward makes the player like the deal more, where there's very little risk in having them accept the decision. Give a role player, or an older declining player, a large option, and they will definitely stay with their deal.

01-08-2019, 03:18 PM	#6
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,062	Hey, sorry I missed this before. Definitely agree there seem to be some pretty suspect decisions there. If you can give a link to the league file (ideally if you're nearing the end of the season, but anytime can work I'm sure) then I can have a deeper look to see if there's something weird in the league going on.

01-08-2019, 05:07 PM	#8
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,062	Okay, I did have another look, and I think part of the problem is with the league option to prevent opt-outs. It looks like there might be a bug where if that's disabled, then players will always opt-out of player options. So I think for now, you're going to want to enable opt-outs, and then I believe you should see players keeping their player options.