Minimum rotation size

PhysicsTeacher · 01-07-2019, 12:04 PM

I've read a thread or two on here about trying to employ an opener strategy, and I know it's coming in OOTP 20, but I thought it would be fun to attempt.

I played some OOTP single player to tweak my approach, using a 3-man "rotation" of openers. It seemed to work well. Last night, Sunday night, I set my 3-man rotation for the new season.

I wake up today to discover that my pitching has been reset, and that I must employ at least a 4-man rotation outside of the playoffs. This is very disappointing. What is the reasoning behind this limitation? Is there any chance of changing this seemingly arbitrary requirement prior to OOTP 20?

Matt Arnold · 01-07-2019, 12:27 PM

We need to enforce certain minimums to make sure teams don't try to totally abuse the system. A 4-man rotation is really the smallest that you can run "normally".

If you want to attempt an opener strategy, the closest you can come to that would be to set a 4-man rotation with the "allow starters to pitch in relief" flag checked, and then those extra "starters" will still be allowed to have a bullpen role set for them.

PhysicsTeacher · 01-07-2019, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

We need to enforce certain minimums to make sure teams don't try to totally abuse the system. A 4-man rotation is really the smallest that you can run "normally".

How would a three man rotation of openers "abuse" the system? It certainly can't be characterized as abnormal, as it wasn't just Tampa Bay that employed the opener strategy at times last season.

Matt Arnold · 01-07-2019, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhysicsTeacher

How would a three man rotation of openers "abuse" the system? It certainly can't be characterized as abnormal, as it wasn't just Tampa Bay that employed the opener strategy at times last season.

It's more that less than a 4-man rotation of "normal" starters really isn't possible, so that was disallowed.

As I said, if you want the "all-opener" strategy, using 4 guys and having them set to also pitch in relief should work to a certain degree, especially if you use the "always start highest rested". But again, OOTP 19 isn't exactly set up to model the "opener" pattern, so I can't guarantee whether that will actually work better for you than the "traditional" rotation would.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-07-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhysicsTeacher

How would a three man rotation of openers "abuse" the system? It certainly can't be characterized as abnormal, as it wasn't just Tampa Bay that employed the opener strategy at times last season.

Abuse as in a tanking strategy, not a winning strategy. Using a 3 man rotation, you can basically ensure that completely fatigued starters start every game. On 4 man, they will rarely get to 100%, but they should be able to pitch a few innings each start.

PhysicsTeacher · 01-07-2019, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Abuse as in a tanking strategy, not a winning strategy. Using a 3 man rotation, you can basically ensure that completely fatigued starters start every game. On 4 man, they will rarely get to 100%, but they should be able to pitch a few innings each start.

With openers who throw one inning, a three man rotation is perfectly feasible without fatigue issues.

DonkeyKongSr · 01-07-2019, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhysicsTeacher

With openers who throw one inning, a three man rotation is perfectly feasible without fatigue issues.

Yes, but you are missing the point. It's way easier to abuse the 3-man rotation for tanking purposes than it is to effectively use it as a winning strategy. Sort of a "bad apples spoil the whole bunch" rule until they figure out how to automatically prevent tanking strategies.

zrog2000 · 01-07-2019, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhysicsTeacher

With openers who throw one inning, a three man rotation is perfectly feasible without fatigue issues.

OOTP19 doesn't handle openers that well since the concept of openers was invented after it was released. Maybe it will change in OOTP20 and they'll change the rule accordingly.

elutz31 · 01-08-2019, 09:54 AM

I have a themed team like this and I've taken it to the extreme with only relief pitchers, 14 of them, it does work. The first season I tried it was in a silver league and it went 94-68. The next season in a gold league it went 88-74. Last year in a diamond league it went 81-81. It's been tougher sledding against better teams but also a work in progress. My team era has gone from 4.18 to 4.75 to 4.83 as I've advanced. There will be fatigue issues and pitchers commonly pitching with 50% + rested.

It's been a work in progress as the first season I had 13 relievers, mostly the cheap gold relievers I could afford after selling off my starting pitchers from the first 2 seasons. I've slowly been upgrading the relievers over the past 3 seasons. In season 2 I eliminated my backup outfielder and just played Ben Zobrist as a super utility as my backup at every position but catcher so I now have 14 relievers. I figured that would alleviate some of the fatigue issues but playing against tougher competition has countered that.

The first 3 seasons I had my park settings on max hitting. With my era on the rise and my record on the decline I switched my park settings to max pitching and picked up a few more cheap defensive players like Phil Rizzuto and Robby Thompson. So far so good its currently 17-9 with a 3.02 team era

Aside from upgrading some of my relievers I've been trying to get Craig Biggio diamond catcher card to cap this team off. He qualifies at C, 2B and an OF position. He could do what Ben Zobrist is doing and back up every position allowing me to add a 15th reliever.

I have to say it's been my most enjoyable team.

01-07-2019, 12:04 PM	#1
PhysicsTeacher Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 87	Minimum rotation size I've read a thread or two on here about trying to employ an opener strategy, and I know it's coming in OOTP 20, but I thought it would be fun to attempt. I played some OOTP single player to tweak my approach, using a 3-man "rotation" of openers. It seemed to work well. Last night, Sunday night, I set my 3-man rotation for the new season. I wake up today to discover that my pitching has been reset, and that I must employ at least a 4-man rotation outside of the playoffs. This is very disappointing. What is the reasoning behind this limitation? Is there any chance of changing this seemingly arbitrary requirement prior to OOTP 20?

01-07-2019, 12:27 PM	#2
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,860	We need to enforce certain minimums to make sure teams don't try to totally abuse the system. A 4-man rotation is really the smallest that you can run "normally". If you want to attempt an opener strategy, the closest you can come to that would be to set a 4-man rotation with the "allow starters to pitch in relief" flag checked, and then those extra "starters" will still be allowed to have a bullpen role set for them.

01-08-2019, 09:54 AM	#9
elutz31 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 108	I have a themed team like this and I've taken it to the extreme with only relief pitchers, 14 of them, it does work. The first season I tried it was in a silver league and it went 94-68. The next season in a gold league it went 88-74. Last year in a diamond league it went 81-81. It's been tougher sledding against better teams but also a work in progress. My team era has gone from 4.18 to 4.75 to 4.83 as I've advanced. There will be fatigue issues and pitchers commonly pitching with 50% + rested. It's been a work in progress as the first season I had 13 relievers, mostly the cheap gold relievers I could afford after selling off my starting pitchers from the first 2 seasons. I've slowly been upgrading the relievers over the past 3 seasons. In season 2 I eliminated my backup outfielder and just played Ben Zobrist as a super utility as my backup at every position but catcher so I now have 14 relievers. I figured that would alleviate some of the fatigue issues but playing against tougher competition has countered that. The first 3 seasons I had my park settings on max hitting. With my era on the rise and my record on the decline I switched my park settings to max pitching and picked up a few more cheap defensive players like Phil Rizzuto and Robby Thompson. So far so good its currently 17-9 with a 3.02 team era Aside from upgrading some of my relievers I've been trying to get Craig Biggio diamond catcher card to cap this team off. He qualifies at C, 2B and an OF position. He could do what Ben Zobrist is doing and back up every position allowing me to add a 15th reliever. I have to say it's been my most enjoyable team.