Competitive balance discussion

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

It is insulting. Reducing everything I posted to me whining about wanting to win all the time is insulting me. It's also a lie. It was a reply to my post. Report away. This forum is unmoderated at this point anyway.

The funny thing is that I was on the whales' side against the whining until I actually saw the problem that cannot be ignored.

Everyone has a different level of tolerance

[Janks]

Dare I even ask this question?

If you set up a FTP league/server/utopia, what happens when the first pack you buy with your hard earned PP has a duplicate card (or just another version) of a card you already have. You now have 2 deGroms. Who is going to buy one?

Right now, you can sell it to a whale or a WIT (Whale-in-Training) and set up your team quite nicely. On the FTP server, no one will have enough points to buy some of their favorite players.

OOTP PT is kind of like this planet. There is only one and we all need to get along.

Now back to the Whale Week programming on WPT.

[JasonC23]

The 1906 Chicago White Sox.
The 1945 Detroit Tigers.
The 1954 New York Giants.
The 1969 New York Mets.
The 1985 Kansas City Royals.
The 1987 Minnesota Twins.
The 1990 Cincinnati Reds.
The 2003 Florida Marlins.
The 2006 St. Louis Cardinals.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by Janks

Dare I even ask this question?

If you set up a FTP league/server/utopia, what happens when the first pack you buy with your hard earned PP has a duplicate card (or just another version) of a card you already have. You now have 2 deGroms. Who is going to buy one?

Right now, you can sell it to a whale or a WIT (Whale-in-Training) and set up your team quite nicely. On the FTP server, no one will have enough points to buy some of their favorite players.

OOTP PT is kind of like this planet. There is only one and we all need to get along.

Now back to the Whale Week programming on WPT.

That's because you are assuming people would try to sell that DeGrom card for the same amount of points it would sell on a PTW server.


If the only way to generate PT is through sims, prices of cards would adjust accordingly...


Then again, I'm not for or against leagues where purchased points are forbidden.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Janks

You now have 2 deGroms. Who is going to buy one?

In the one scenario, nobody since the AH would not exist to sell him in. They would have to either live with it or ask for additional programming to prevent duplicates. I guess they could auto sell it back to the game for the minimum. Can't imagine getting duplicate Ruth cards and having to auto sell for minimum, but those are the breaks I guess.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Janks

Dare I even ask this question?

If you set up a FTP league/server/utopia, what happens when the first pack you buy with your hard earned PP has a duplicate card (or just another version) of a card you already have. You now have 2 deGroms. Who is going to buy one?

Right now, you can sell it to a whale or a WIT (Whale-in-Training) and set up your team quite nicely. On the FTP server, no one will have enough points to buy some of their favorite players.

OOTP PT is kind of like this planet. There is only one and we all need to get along.


Now back to the Whale Week programming on WPT.

You can sell them to the AI in that case, or keep them. There is value still, if your DeGrom card goes cold just before the playoffs, you switch to the other one.

And while I haven't tried it out, I noticed cold players never change their status while on the inactive roster. If that's true for hot players, having two is a big advantage. The moment #1 gets hot, you stash him on the inactive roster until the playoffs start, and you play #2. I think that would work if hot is the same as cold on the inactive roster.

Or you know, have an auction house with a different market and hence different prices.

Much better problems than being swallowed by whales.

[Thalion]

Doesn't work due to the 14 day waiting period, just to prevent this kind of stuff.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Thalion

Doesn't work due to the 14 day waiting period, just to prevent this kind of stuff.

April 3rd, card gets hot. Place it on the inactive list for 5+ months, it will be ready.

Anything more than 14 days away from the playoffs is fair game.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by matingly23

April 3rd, card gets hot. Place it on the inactive list for 5+ months, it will be ready.

Anything more than 14 days away from the playoffs is fair game.

The consensus in another thread is that hot/cold is not something programmed into PT. If true, how does this help? I think a developer is the only one that would know for sure if PT has hot/cold programmed in.

[Clavette]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

I guess it comes down to a matter of what this thread was intended for. I viewed this thread as one place where everyone can discuss how to make PT more competitive and to discuss issues with the competitive balance.

So I do believe that having F2P in the same league as P2W players does create a unbalanced league. Offering other options on how to avoid this, is what I thought this thread was for.

Not trying to pick an argument with you Orcin but you seem to be putting down all the opinions from F2P players as if it isn't suppose to be in this thread. Can I ask what you think this thread is actually for?

I understand what you are saying but I feel like as a whole the f2p players are being a bit overdramatic and blowing things out of proportion.

Good thread for this discussion but this is a tough middle ground to find between f2p and p2p players.

And not all p2p players are equal

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

The consensus in another thread is that hot/cold is not something programmed into PT. If true, how does this help? I think a developer is the only one that would know for sure if PT has hot/cold programmed in.

It seems from the stats the players generate that they are indeed getting hot and getting cold.


How would it help? It would allow you to freeze a player's hot streak, like capturing lightning in a bottle so to speak. And you release that lightning in the play-offs.

If you have extra/duplicate cards you can afford to bench the hot player and replace him with his duplicate or some other replacement player.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by matingly23

It seems from the stats the players generate that they are indeed getting hot and getting cold.


How would it help? It would allow you to freeze a player's hot streak, like capturing lightning in a bottle so to speak. And you release that lightning in the play-offs.

If you have extra/duplicate cards you can afford to bench the hot player and replace him with his duplicate or some other replacement player.

Small sample sizes result in hot and cold, but it's said to not be due to anything in the game engine. If that is true, then switching identical cards from one that is cold to one that is hot would have no effect. Both cards would have the same statistical probability from that point on. In OOTP, it is said that morale can affect whether a player has a better or worse chance of playing good, but morale is turned off in PT, so it has been said (not by the developers) that there isn't anything in the game engine making a player more likely or less likely to play better from game to game, week to week, etc. But then we would have to hear from the developers to know if that is true or not. We certainly can't surmise that there is just because a small sample resulted in the player showing up on the hot or cold list. I believe that nobody but the developers would know which is true.

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by matingly23

It seems from the stats the players generate that they are indeed getting hot and getting cold.


How would it help? It would allow you to freeze a player's hot streak, like capturing lightning in a bottle so to speak. And you release that lightning in the play-offs.

If you have extra/duplicate cards you can afford to bench the hot player and replace him with his duplicate or some other replacement player.

It was noted in the Bug Reports forum that if you have two identical cards (one active, one inactive), if you inactivate/reserve one card, you are unable to use both for 14 game days. The developers wanted to prevent this from happening.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by atabakin

It was noted in the Bug Reports forum that if you have two identical cards (one active, one inactive), if you inactivate/reserve one card, you are unable to use both for 14 game days. The developers wanted to prevent this from happening.

Smart, otherwise we'd get to the point where the whaliest whales had duplicates of several cards and could switch significant parts of their lineups on a series-by-series basis depending on if the other team is lefty or righty heavy.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by matingly23

It seems from the stats the players generate that they are indeed getting hot and getting cold.


How would it help? It would allow you to freeze a player's hot streak, like capturing lightning in a bottle so to speak. And you release that lightning in the play-offs.

If you have extra/duplicate cards you can afford to bench the hot player and replace him with his duplicate or some other replacement player.

I'm pretty positive that is not how it works. And if it is how it works, it's a terrible mechanic that I'd never want to get involved in exploiting like that.

[boxner1]

Originally Posted by Janks

Dare I even ask this question?

If you set up a FTP league/server/utopia, what happens when the first pack you buy with your hard earned PP has a duplicate card (or just another version) of a card you already have. You now have 2 deGroms. Who is going to buy one?

Right now, you can sell it to a whale or a WIT (Whale-in-Training) and set up your team quite nicely. On the FTP server, no one will have enough points to buy some of their favorite players.

OOTP PT is kind of like this planet. There is only one and we all need to get along.

Now back to the Whale Week programming on WPT.

Many of us would like an overall ratings cap league. That would mean no packs to open. Every player in the universe is available for purchase with your X number of (salary cap limited) points.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by boxner1

Many of us would like an overall ratings cap league. That would mean no packs to open. Every player in the universe is available for purchase with your X number of (salary cap limited) points.

That's the first I've heard of that form of salary cap league. Everyone else seems to be talking about using the card system (which is fun, especially for anyone that collected cards as a kid), but capping the average overall rating of your 25 man roster. It would add a lot more strategy that just buying up historical perfects, which is probably the endgame of the current setup.

[webdox]

Originally Posted by Zorro

Kind of tells you something right?

Indeed it does. Not sure he is going to hear it at the bottom of this ever growing dog pile though...

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by webdox

Indeed it does. Not sure he is going to hear it at the bottom of this ever growing dog pile though...

What am I not going to hear sunshine? That I spelled a username incorrectly?

All I hear is another sad, small person puffing out their chest over a lie.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Clavette

I understand what you are saying but I feel like as a whole the f2p players are being a bit overdramatic and blowing things out of proportion.

Good thread for this discussion but this is a tough middle ground to find between f2p and p2p players.

And not all p2p players are equal

The team I faced in Silver had 15 100 rated cards and the rest were all 90+. It had 80+ more on the reserve roster with the lowest one being rated an 80.

But yeah, since we're talking about competitive balance, I'm obviously "blowing things out of proportion".

Tell me exactly how a free team in Silver is supposed to compete with that? It's called being broken.