Competitive balance discussion

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by Orcin

You spelled Don Mattingly's name wrong.

Kind of tells you something right?

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Orcin

You spelled Don Mattingly's name wrong.

When I use it as a username I keep it to 8 characters, it's a UNIX thing.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Zorro

Kind of tells you something right?

That you both rushed to judgement? Feel better now?

[matingly23]

OK well since the odds are 0 I can win in the new Whale-Infested Gold League I am in, both of my Gold teams in that league are officially raising the White Flag.

We want to get away from this Whale! We're trying hard to go 0-162 and head back to Silver.

We are now the anti-Whales, we're the Minnows! Have fun playing the Keesters and Scots, they're as bad as the Whales are unbeatable.

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by matingly23

OK well since the odds are 0 I can win in the new Whale-Infested Gold League I am in, both of my Gold teams in that league are officially raising the White Flag.

We want to get away from this Whale! We're trying hard to go 0-162 and head back to Silver.

We are now the anti-Whales, we're the Minnows! Have fun playing the Keesters and Scots, they're as bad as the Whales are unbeatable.

Have fun getting banned, then.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by matingly23

That you both rushed to judgement? Feel better now?

I always feel good my friend. Thank you for asking.😀

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by matingly23

Oh sweet, got promoted to Gold!

And I'm in a league with the same Whale as before - so I know already who will win its Championship. Week ruined.

Think I will just let my teams in that league go unmanned for this week and any others I find myself in Whale-Town. Not worth it.

While you have a point and you've made it clear, and that I share the same opinion as you, you're starting to even annoy the heck out of the people that share your opinion. Stop throwing tantrums like a 9 year old. You're not going to get anything accomplished by acting like you haven't been outside in society in 3 years.


The Pro/Rel as it is right now is not perfect (I'm sure a couple people around here are gonna froth at the mouth, but oh well).


I'm still in Bronze. I've been in Bronze since the beginning. I don't care about winning or not, as this iteration of the game is just a big testing phase in my eyes and I have no desire to be competitive this year. When they introduce tournaments and other things to do, my tune will change but for right now I'm just playing around (within the rules).


That being said, Pro/Rel was supposed to "take care" of the bigger teams over time and slot everyone where they should be. The big problem, is that the whale that gets promoted to silver gets replaced by another whale in Bronze and it never stops really. This season, 3 of the other 4 teams in my division have no business being in Bronze. They should be in Gold or higher. I'm where I'm supposed to be. The revolving door of teams filled with Gold and Diamonds in a Bronze league is not.


Again, I don't really care about winning, so it's not me whining that teams are stronger than mine. What this does though, is probably deter some customers that are on the fence from wanting to stick around. Just remember that for any game, a very small % of the player base visits the forums or social media. The others have no idea what's going on, just that there are those teams that are almost impossible to beat.



I think it has been discussed that for next iteration they want to seed teams higher out of entry league if the team is really strong and I would strongly recommend that. In a game where zero skill is required to play and everything is left to the RNG of attributes, you need to give the less fortunate an occasion to also compete IN THEIR APPROPRIATE LEVEL. Yes, I said less fortunate. Because we can't all afford to shell out a whole lot of extra money for this mode. And some people in this thread seem to seriously think we all have hundreds of extra dollars to shell out, and to just leave if we don't like it.


I'm not advocating for free leagues at all. But better seeding out of entry level and in general during the pro/rel process would be great. The idea of the really strong teams moving up over the course of a few weeks is true for that one team. But it's just replaced by another one that's too strong for that level so the cycle never ends.



That would also probably help with another thing that's been "bugging" me on these forums. People were told to "wait 4-5 weeks for the teams to be slotted where they should then you should start having fun because it will be more competitive".


Well...I'm a gamer and have been all my life. I have never in my life seen a gaming community to basically tell the players that the experience for the first month+ will probably suck. Games should be fun from the get-go or else people will move along. Remember, most people playing don't access forums or social media. Those people don't get the "memo" that things in several weeks should be a bit better. Heck, I got the memo, and I thought it was really weird. Would Fortnite be so popular if you had to "play everyday for 4-5 weeks and not really enjoy it but then maybe it will get fun" ? It wouldn't, because games that are not fun from the get go tend to not retain customers. I'm not saying PT is horrible, but if you can't be slotted where you should from the get go and cannot be competitive for over a month, then...what's the point of sticking around ?


Anyway..not really a rant, just some observations. I don't care if I stay in Bronze all along for this year so I don't have a skin in the game, but those things would probably deter me from going "all in" (as much as I can) for next year's game.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

This is a competitive balance discussion to possibly improve the game. Improve the game in your own opinion

Why don't you want the game improved? Improve the game is what I want. I do not want the game gutted and changed to fit a few peoples idea of a utopia where everybody wins and we all "eat rainbow stew from a silver spoon."

I would likely even spend that $20 3-4 times if it were any good. Then you would likely complain because the game changed from FTP to PTP. Spend that $80 now to help improve the game and compete now That is plenty of money to be competitive at Diamond and/or Perfect level.

Yes, it's an opinion being stated. A discussion. Just like yours. I didn't say I have the only valid opinion. Are you?

I've spent the money. Won't be in the future because it's clear that spending money ends badly unless you don't stop spending it. And I can certainly afford to do it, but I'm not wasteful so I won't. I'm not complaining about whales. I'm complaining about the dead end that every team will reach if they're any good and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars.

All of the bashing of people voicing their frustration reeks of being overly defensive.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by atabakin

Have fun getting banned, then.

I don't see how it's any different than making a whale team.

Both are equally disruptive to competitive balance. Ban me if you want, I don't want to "compete" in a league with Whales anyway.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by matingly23

That you both rushed to judgement? Feel better now?

I didn't rush to judgment. You spelled it wrong.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by matingly23

I don't see how it's any different than making a whale team.

One is trying to win, the other is trying to lose. Pretty simple really.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Orcin

One is trying to win, the other is trying to lose. Pretty simple really.

I'm trying to shake the whale. I wish I could join a free league, but the developers have left me in a situation where I can't compete.

It's better for my team to make sure they shake the whale than to win. They won't earn many if any points which hurts, but they will get a chance to win in Silver, in a hopefully Whale-free league.

I don't see the point in even trying if you're stuck with a whale, so long-term, this is the best strategy.

Same as when teams rebuild they "tank" with young/cheap players.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

All of the bashing of people voicing their frustration reeks of being overly defensive.

Everyone deserves their chance to express their opinion. It is not bashing when someone expresses a different opinion and provides a counter-argument to yours. It is called discussion.

[matingly23]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I didn't rush to judgment. You spelled it wrong.

If you think I did you're a sad little person.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Everyone deserves their chance to express their opinion. It is not bashing when someone expresses a different opinion and provides a counter-argument to yours. It is called discussion.

This isn't bashing?

I do not want the game gutted and changed to fit a few peoples idea of a utopia where everybody wins and we all "eat rainbow stew from a silver spoon."

That was never the complaint. It's obviously meant to diminish anyone's opinion that is different than his. And this has gone on continually through this thread.

[matingly23]

The fact is the balance can easily be ruined by just one whale right now.

You can end up in a league where you have 0 chance to win because someone was allowed in who spent a lot of money.

I had two teams that had legit shots to win the silver championship and both were swallowed whole by the same whale. Both find themselves today in a gold league with that same whale.

There's no point to trying to beat that team, so the best strategy now is to hope to lose, know the whale will win, and be free of them next week. Be two levels away from that team so that I should not see them again for a long time.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

This isn't bashing?



That was never the complaint. It's obviously meant to diminish anyone's opinion that is different than his. And this has gone on continually through this thread.

See post above yours...

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by matingly23

OK well since the odds are 0 I can win in the new Whale-Infested Gold League I am in, both of my Gold teams in that league are officially raising the White Flag.

We want to get away from this Whale! We're trying hard to go 0-162 and head back to Silver.

We are now the anti-Whales, we're the Minnows! Have fun playing the Keesters and Scots, they're as bad as the Whales are unbeatable.

If you lose and through your efforts give others too many PP (by running up the score), it is a violation of the TOS according to the developers. It really makes no sense to have this reaction given your success in the league you were just in. The whales will leave you behind on their own merit without needing to react in such a way.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Orcin

One is trying to win, the other is trying to lose. Pretty simple really.

Exactly. I am putting it another way. Some people are winners. Some people are losers.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

This isn't bashing?

No, this is bashing...

Originally Posted by matingly23

If you think I did you're a sad little person.