Lefty pitchers

[moalkha]

Is anyone else noticing that lefty pitchers are getting shelled at higher levels?

I have two iterations of Randy Johnson on my teams (97 and 93 OVR) and he is consistently the worst pitcher of my staff, to the point that I'm thinking of ditching him and go with an all righty rotation.

From what I see in my leagues, even players like Sale, Kershaw and Corbin are very ineffective once you reach Diamond level.

My explanation is that most high level batters are righty, and it is very common to play teams that have mostly righty lineups filled with great hitters.

If you couple that with the fact that lefty pichers usually have bigger splits than righties, rendering them even weaker against righthanded batters, I'm wondering if we will gradually see an all-righty enviroment (both pitchers and hitters) in higher leagues.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Well, once you reach Diamond their competition is much better, so you cannot expect them to post sub 3 ERAs consistenly. Anything below 3.5 should be considered a very good season. It's all about the competition players face.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by moalkha

Is anyone else noticing that lefty pitchers are getting shelled at higher levels?

I have two iterations of Randy Johnson on my teams (97 and 93 OVR) and he is consistently the worst pitcher of my staff, to the point that I'm thinking of ditching him and go with an all righty rotation.

From what I see in my leagues, even players like Sale, Kershaw and Corbin are very ineffective once you reach Diamond level.

My explanation is that most high level batters are righty, and it is very common to play teams that have mostly righty lineups filled with great hitters.

If you couple that with the fact that lefty pichers usually have bigger splits than righties, rendering them even weaker against righthanded batters, I'm wondering if we will gradually see an all-righty enviroment (both pitchers and hitters) in higher leagues.

I hear what you are saying but I have had great luck with Randy Johnson. He was 18-8 with a 2.83 era in Diamond league and won the Best Pitcher and MVP award. Now in the Perfect league he is 12-8 with a 3.01 Era and best on my staff.

[CrazyWR]

If you are concerned about righties, build yourself a home ballpark to help your pitchers. That said, I haven't really seen much from Corbin or Sale at higher levels to make them worth recommending.

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by CrazyWR

If you are concerned about righties, build yourself a home ballpark to help your pitchers. That said, I haven't really seen much from Corbin or Sale at higher levels to make them worth recommending.

I've adjusted down home runs in my park, put a solid defense behind him, and had some decent success in diamond with him -



There are other versions that are successful. Of course, success looks different the higher you go too.

[<Pion>]

The OP "may" be onto something here, though there might be other explanations. Here are the ERAs for left and right hand pitchers at each of the different league levels. At Diamond and Perfect levels, the ERA superiority has switched from LHP to RHP...

Bronze LHP/RHP: 4.10/4.16
Silver: 4.07/4.16
Gold: 4.16/4.19
Diamond: 4.19/4.11
Perfect: 4.20/3.99

[DonkeyKongSr]

You'll need to get yourself a Perfect Big Unit then. 4 of them in the Top 25 qualified starter ERAs in my Perfect League. 2 Chris Sales, too, but definitely not my 5+ ERA version.

Most amazing is that there is a Len Barker in the top 10. Unbelievable. I did some Len Barker & Larry Dierker analysis before and perhaps I'll put a post up about it sometime. Basically my findings showed that there are only a small handful of pitchers that are better than them at their particular skillsets. I'm not really sure yet why their skillsets work, but if you saw those lists, you'd say, "Oh yeah, those guys kill it whenever I see them."

[stealofhome]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Most amazing is that there is a Len Barker in the top 10. Unbelievable. I did some Len Barker & Larry Dierker analysis before and perhaps I'll put a post up about it sometime. Basically my findings showed that there are only a small handful of pitchers that are better than them at their particular skillsets. I'm not really sure yet why their skillsets work, but if you saw those lists, you'd say, "Oh yeah, those guys kill it whenever I see them."

I am a big believer in Len Bark and Larry Dierker - both of them are killing it for my Fond du Lac Panthers. I don't think there's anything super magical about them, they're just very skilled and probably under-ranked in Overall Rating. I've gone a little beyond this level, but just add up their STU, MOV, and CON ratings: Barker = 218, Dierker = 215.

Now look at some of the Diamond pitchers: 91 Pedro = 220. 90 Clemens = 219. 90 Reuschel = 216. 90 Strasburg = 194.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by stealofhome

I am a big believer in Len Bark and Larry Dierker - both of them are killing it for my Fond du Lac Panthers. I don't think there's anything super magical about them, they're just very skilled and probably under-ranked in Overall Rating. I've gone a little beyond this level, but just add up their STU, MOV, and CON ratings: Barker = 218, Dierker = 215.

Now look at some of the Diamond pitchers: 91 Pedro = 220. 90 Clemens = 219. 90 Reuschel = 216. 90 Strasburg = 194.

Oh yeah, they are definitely underscored Overall, by a lot, as my analysis determined. They both play like Diamond pitchers.

What I really want to get to the bottom of is why their skillset is often competitive at even higher levels. A Barker being a top player in Perfect Leagues is evidence that his style holds up. And I know of less than 10 players that beat him in all his core stats and that list isn't surprising if you checked your leader boards. Some are surprising because they aren't all Perfects and big names, but they are consistent performers.

[Weaseltail]

I've had good luck with an all LHP rotation, but I built my park around it. I also think there are more quality RHP than LHP available. Guys like Corbin, Snell, Paxson, Kershaw aren't that great and tend to get hit hard at higher levels. And the better LHP starters are pretty expensive and not readily available.

Barker and Dierker are great SP for teams on a budget, but IMO they get exploited at higher levels. There are a lot of them around, so some are always going to do well even in higher leagues, but I don't think they compare all that favorably to mid/high-quality diamonds (although they're significantly cheaper), although the way I rank SP may be different.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Oh yeah, they are definitely underscored Overall, by a lot, as my analysis determined. They both play like Diamond pitchers.

What I really want to get to the bottom of is why their skillset is often competitive at even higher levels. A Barker being a top player in Perfect Leagues is evidence that his style holds up. And I know of less than 10 players that beat him in all his core stats and that list isn't surprising if you checked your leader boards. Some are surprising because they aren't all Perfects and big names, but they are consistent performers.

Tell that to my Barker, please? I just got moved to Diamond this year and he's rocking a 5 ERA.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Weaseltail

I've had good luck with an all LHP rotation, but I built my park around it. I also think there are more quality RHP than LHP available. Guys like Corbin, Snell, Paxson, Kershaw aren't that great and tend to get hit hard at higher levels. And the better LHP starters are pretty expensive and not readily available.

Glad you didn't put Sale on your list, as OP did. Even though he's a lefty and can sometimes be terrible (I won't let the 5 ERA of mine distract me from the truth), he's still a Top 2 Live SP along with deGrom...not coincidentally the only 2 Perfect Live SP.

[DonkeyKongSr]

You want a LHP that gets crushed in Perfect? My Doolittle has a 6.90 ERA out of the bullpen and I've even reduced his leverage quite a bit. He had a 3.17 in Diamond and 2.XX in the prior seasons. Falling off a cliff.

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Tell that to my Barker, please? I just got moved to Diamond this year and he's rocking a 5 ERA.

May I suggest trying him out as a long reliever? His stuff gets a significant boost to 106. After a season and a half in my rotation, I bumped him starting with Diamond last season, and he's registered identical 149 ERA+ in both Diamond and Perfect, combining for 2.2 WAR in 118.1 IP over 70 appearances.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by atabakin

May I suggest trying him out as a long reliever? His stuff gets a significant boost to 106. After a season and a half in my rotation, I bumped him starting with Diamond last season, and he's registered identical 149 ERA+ in both Diamond and Perfect, combining for 2.2 WAR in 118.1 IP over 70 appearances.

Yeah, the flaw with that is I now have to go out and buy a new starter. Already using Corbin (and Langston) out of the pen, and I don't really have any other depth starters to slot in.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

You want a LHP that gets crushed in Perfect? My Doolittle has a 6.90 ERA out of the bullpen and I've even reduced his leverage quite a bit. He had a 3.17 in Diamond and 2.XX in the prior seasons. Falling off a cliff.

Small sample size. Though his ERA has gone up (3.15 to 3.45) from diamond to Perfect, it isn't out of the norm for what most pitchers do. ERAs shown based on 3000 innings total in the two levels.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Yeah, the flaw with that is I now have to go out and buy a new starter. Already using Corbin (and Langston) out of the pen, and I don't really have any other depth starters to slot in.

Grab a Zack Wheeler and roll the dice. He's often a winning pitcher, sometimes pretty dominant, and fairly cheap. He went 14-7 for me in Diamond last season as my #5 pitcher.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

The OP "may" be onto something here, though there might be other explanations. Here are the ERAs for left and right hand pitchers at each of the different league levels. At Diamond and Perfect levels, the ERA superiority has switched from LHP to RHP...

Bronze LHP/RHP: 4.10/4.16
Silver: 4.07/4.16
Gold: 4.16/4.19
Diamond: 4.19/4.11
Perfect: 4.20/3.99

Wow, Nice work. Thanks....

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

You want a LHP that gets crushed in Perfect? My Doolittle has a 6.90 ERA out of the bullpen and I've even reduced his leverage quite a bit. He had a 3.17 in Diamond and 2.XX in the prior seasons. Falling off a cliff.

Mine is flinging a lot better at 3.43 so far in perfect...

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Zorro

Mine is flinging a lot better at 3.43 so far in perfect...

There's 18 in my league and there's several 2.xx, 3.xx, 4.xx, 5.xx and 6.xx. Plus a 7.18. I'm not dumping him, because he's still great if I can figure out how to get him in the right situations. He's got 4 losses and 3 BS for me, and that's with playing mostly as Lefty Specialist this season.