So why is there a 10% tax? - Page 3

Clavette · 12-31-2018, 02:09 PM

I cant believe that we are having this conversation. If you are smart enough to learn this game past the learning curve you should be able to figure out that 10% of selling a card at 1000 ends up paying out 900. If you still list it at that price then it's your loss.

Unbelievable that people need to be spoon fed in this game.

America!

<Pion> · 12-31-2018, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by absurddoctor

I don't think you should be prevented from selling below the quicksell rate, and I agree that more pop-ups would be moving in the wrong direction. I do think the default minimum should be bumped up to cover the 10% though. The whole point of filling that box in is to make the auction process easier. In most cases, people will not want sell at a loss, so auto-filling with a value that covers the common case would make more sense. I'm pretty slow to auction off cards because the process is made more tedious by having to change those values every single time (and, in my case, is actually physically painful thanks to RSI symptoms).

Not sure I understand, maybe I'm reading it wrong. How can you support selling below the quick sell rate (something I'm not suggesting, I'm suggesting selling to others "at" the quick sell amount not below) and at the same time you want the minimum bumped up 10%. Not sure how both can be supported at the same time, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

freedavebrown · 12-31-2018, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Not sure I understand, maybe I'm reading it wrong. How can you support selling below the quick sell rate (something I'm not suggesting, I'm suggesting selling to others "at" the quick sell amount not below) and at the same time you want the minimum bumped up 10%. Not sure how both can be supported at the same time, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I think he is suggesting that the auto-filled number be bumped to cover the 10% but if you still wanna sell at the quick sell price then that is fine you can adjust it down. How is this not the best solution?

<Pion> · 12-31-2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedavebrown

I think he is suggesting that the auto-filled number be bumped to cover the 10% but if you still wanna sell at the quick sell price then that is fine you can adjust it down. How is this not the best solution?

As mentioned, when selling a lot of players and given the choice of one click versus adjusting down, I would choose one click and the loser would be the new guy that could have benefited from the lower price.

zrog2000 · 12-31-2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Then you take my post as wrong. I think it would be an annoying feature (having more pop-ups) and don't see why things have to be a nanny state to protect people from themselves. In addition, there are times though I've known that I wouldn't get as much money as a quick sell, I still put it up at the minimum (25 PP for bronze players) figuring the 2 PP would make me no difference and might make a difference to a new guy trying to build a brand new team with limited resources. Should I be prevented from making that choice and have to deal with additional pop-ups because I do? If faced with additional pop-ups or doing a quick sell when trying to get rid of a lot of players, it's quicker to do the sell now option. Does that make me rude to want to help the new guy with as low a price as allowed within the rules?

I don't want a popup. I want the default low bid price to be the exact break even amount, with the manager able to edit it from there. That would be the least rude to new players who aren't entirely sure of everything that is going on.

And I say this as someone who bought a Mookie for 21K.

zrog2000 · 12-31-2018, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by <Pion>

As mentioned, when selling a lot of players and given the choice of one click versus adjusting down, I would choose one click and the loser would be the new guy that could have benefited from the lower price.

It's ironic that you're acting like you're doing everyone else a favor, while thinking only of yourself and how you play the game. I'd prefer that new players don't get ripped off the first time they use the AH because they made a simple mistake.

<Pion> · 12-31-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zrog2000

It's ironic that you're acting like you're doing everyone else a favor, while thinking only of yourself and how you play the game. I'd prefer that new players don't get ripped off the first time they use the AH because they made a simple mistake.

Sad that you would feel that way. I see it as a win-win for both sides, guess I'm a glass half full guy.

Orcin · 12-31-2018, 03:12 PM

I prefer that the minimum bid price be above the quick-sell price by more than the auction fee. For example, minimum bid price on a gold would be 1,200pp. That would encourage people to put cards on the auction house to make a small profit without having to compete with someone that doesn't know or care that they lose 10% at the quick-sell price. It would also discourage quick-selling, which takes cards out of circulation, by offering a greater chance at profit. You don't need a warning popup either.

webdox · 12-31-2018, 03:58 PM

Thanks for bringing this to my attention OP. Guess I wasn't paying attention before. Yes, I have lost money 3x now and will never make that mistake again...

After reading some of the replies I give you credit for even posting this...

Morug · 12-31-2018, 04:02 PM

Thats can help a lot of little clubs to keep cards on the market and not tax transactions under 1 100 PP.

webdox · 12-31-2018, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freedavebrown

Yes, this is exactly my feeling too. The whole vibe of the people in this thread suggesting that it´s not a problem is basically "sucks to be a dumb newb."

Which is all well and good, but if there is an easy way to make it so that less people are annoyed and made to feel ripped off then that is ultimately good for the game that we all obviously care about.

Been playing this game for many years, have a doctorate, and have missed the 10% warning 3x now. I guess I'm just an idiot as spelled out very clearly here to me here and apparently need to be fed with a spoon.

I have, however, summarily got smart and and found the ignore feature to which I have added a few Aholes to the that list... eThugs on every forum... PLONK.

Orcin · 12-31-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morug

Thats can help a lot of little clubs to keep cards on the market and not tax transactions under 1 100 PP.

It could be a good idea to waive the tax on any sales at the quick-sell price. That would give people incentive to post cards at the current minimum instead of quick-selling them.

BMW · 12-31-2018, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

It could be a good idea to waive the tax on any sales at the quick-sell price. That would give people incentive to post cards at the current minimum instead of quick-selling them.

I think quick-selling cards is good for the back end of the system. Keeps the database size down when you don't need to keep track of 4,000 Gerison Bautistas. I imagine it adds up.

SayHey1 · 12-31-2018, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

The real question is why would someone sell a card on the auction house at the starting price when it is 10% less than they could get by quick-selling it?

Hoping to get more at auction by getting a bidding war going I guess.

RchW · 12-31-2018, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdox

Been playing this game for many years, have a doctorate, and have missed the 10% warning 3x now. I guess I'm just an idiot as spelled out very clearly here to me here and apparently need to be fed with a spoon.

I have, however, summarily got smart and and found the ignore feature to which I have added a few Aholes to the that list... eThugs on every forum... PLONK.

I'll be happy to ignore anyone who = doctorate with intelligence.

Dogberry99 · 12-31-2018, 06:02 PM

There are other possible solutions than those being considered here.

For example, the game could treat the auction sale price as the amount the seller would actually receive instead of the displayed starting bid price. Make the buyer pay the 10% tax on a card without the seller having to even consider it when they set their reserve price. How difficult would it be for me to set the price of a gold card at the minimum of 1000 points but have the game start the bidding at 1112 points? Allowing a seller to actually receive what they were asking for would make selling a bit more straight-forward of a process.

Dogberry99 · 12-31-2018, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The minimum auction starting bid is the quick-sell price. Why would anyone want to sell a card for less, other than trying to cheat the system?

If they're putting a card up with the reserve price equaling the quick-sell price, then they are, in fact, selling a card for less. I understand your point, but the logic used to get there is severely flawed.

daves · 12-31-2018, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

10% is what all other games of this type take for transactions of cards, the reason is to control inflation to a certain degree. And since those games have been around a lot longer than PT, we just used the 10% which seems to have worked out well in the past.

But we don't want to be like other games (and we are not), so let's make it 5%.

NYY #23 · 12-31-2018, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daves

But we don't want to be like other games (and we are not), so let's make it 5%.

How about 5% per championship?

Westheim · 12-31-2018, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

For example, the game could treat the auction sale price as the amount the seller would actually receive instead of the displayed starting bid price. Make the buyer pay the 10% tax on a card without the seller having to even consider it when they set their reserve price.

Do you have any idea what kind of butthurt would break out on the forums the first time someone bids 2,000 for a card and then has to fork over 2,200?

None of these ideas make anything better. The one thing that would make everything better would be for people to actually smarten the heck up.

12-31-2018, 03:58 PM	#49
webdox Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 295	Thanks for bringing this to my attention OP. Guess I wasn't paying attention before. Yes, I have lost money 3x now and will never make that mistake again... After reading some of the replies I give you credit for even posting this... Last edited by webdox; 12-31-2018 at 04:01 PM.

12-31-2018, 02:09 PM	#41
Clavette Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Connecticut Posts: 371	I cant believe that we are having this conversation. If you are smart enough to learn this game past the learning curve you should be able to figure out that 10% of selling a card at 1000 ends up paying out 900. If you still list it at that price then it's your loss. Unbelievable that people need to be spoon fed in this game. America!

12-31-2018, 03:12 PM	#48
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,891	I prefer that the minimum bid price be above the quick-sell price by more than the auction fee. For example, minimum bid price on a gold would be 1,200pp. That would encourage people to put cards on the auction house to make a small profit without having to compete with someone that doesn't know or care that they lose 10% at the quick-sell price. It would also discourage quick-selling, which takes cards out of circulation, by offering a greater chance at profit. You don't need a warning popup either.

12-31-2018, 04:02 PM	#50
Morug Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 308	Thats can help a lot of little clubs to keep cards on the market and not tax transactions under 1 100 PP.

12-31-2018, 06:02 PM	#56
Dogberry99 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 1,328	There are other possible solutions than those being considered here. For example, the game could treat the auction sale price as the amount the seller would actually receive instead of the displayed starting bid price. Make the buyer pay the 10% tax on a card without the seller having to even consider it when they set their reserve price. How difficult would it be for me to set the price of a gold card at the minimum of 1000 points but have the game start the bidding at 1112 points? Allowing a seller to actually receive what they were asking for would make selling a bit more straight-forward of a process.