Preference on Pitchers? GB, NEUT or FB?

[daves]

In running your PT team what is your preference on pitchers? Ground ball, Flyball or Neutral?

Personally, I am leery of the flyball pitchers due to the power in the leagues.

[omniart]

I assume that movement and power (and ballpark attributes) determine home runs and that fly ball versus ground ball is a distinction for balls in play. I could be wrong on this, but it would mean that the "fly ball" does not result in more home runs. Ground balls do result in more errors (and unearned runs) than fly balls. Thus I prefer flyball.

[Westheim]

Movement is what matters most in regards to home runs. Today I unloaded my James Paxton, an 89-rated card with 43(?) movement that allowed about 90 homers in 500 innings. In the offensive environment of the game, everything under 50 movement is garbage, no matter the overall value, the stuff, or whether he has a groundball label.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by daves

In running your PT team what is your preference on pitchers? Ground ball, Flyball or Neutral?

Personally, I am leery of the flyball pitchers due to the power in the leagues.

I have an Extreme Flyball pitcher with a 76 in Movement, which is elite for a SP (mostly RP go over 80). In 3 seasons, he's averaged 0.4 HR/9. That's ultra-elite HR suppression. No surprise that he's a Dead Ball/Live Ball crossover pitcher with 0.3 career HR/9, 1923 Cincinnati Red Dolf Luque.

As others said, I think Movement keeps the ball in the park and Flyball keeps the ball off the ground. I'll take pop-ups all day to grounders.

[Sharkn20]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

I have an Extreme Flyball pitcher with a 76 in Movement, which is elite for a SP (mostly RP go over 80). In 3 seasons, he averages 0.4 HR/9. That's ultra-elite HR suppression. No surprise that he's a Dead Ball/Live Ball crossover pitcher with 0.3 career HR/9, 1923 Cincinnati Red Dolf Luque.

As others said, I think Movement keeps the ball in the park and Flyball keeps the ball off the ground.

Wow would love to see his card and stats

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[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Sharkn20

Wow would love to see his card and stats

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Had it handy from another thread. It also seems to me that guys with great Curveballs also do well in PT. Check out Len Barker as an example of an overachiever largely due to a strong Curveball. Flyball+Stuff+Movement+Curveball is a recipe for beating the power guys, from what I can tell.

[Sharkn20]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Had it handy from another thread. It also seems to me that guys with great Curveballs also do well in PT. Check out Len Barker as an example of an overachiever largely due to a strong Curveball. Flyball+Stuff+Movement+Curveball is a recipe for beating the power guys, from what I can tell.

Wow man. How much did he cost you? He is bloody awesome.

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[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Sharkn20

Wow man. How much did he cost you? He is bloody awesome.

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Lucky pack pull (he's going for about 50K, but I don't think he's been sold much). I spent $20 on this team and somehow managed to pull him and Chris Sale from the 25 1K packs I bought. My pitching staff has been pretty awesome since, winning the Bronze WS, losing in the LCS in Silver, and now probably losing to a stacked team in the Gold WS.

[Ty Cobb]

Give me worm assassins any day, but what's said above is right...poor movement=lots of sharply turning pitchers heads and Chris Berman babbling, "Back back back back back...gone."

[Whoofe]

I like neutral or groundballer. if the pitcher has good movement I can deal with flyball, but I avoid extreme flyball

[old timer]

Originally Posted by Whoofe

I like neutral or groundballer. if the pitcher has good movement I can deal with flyball, but I avoid extreme flyball

If the pitcher has a good movement rating, why should one avoid ex-fb pitchers? I've had several of these pitchers over all 3 seasons and they've all had consistently low HR/9 numbers (yes, I know, this means nothing really). In other words, if it's only movement affecting Hr/9, then why avoid ex-fb pitchers? One nice thing is that they'll on average, have a lower BABIP.

[chazzycat]

Fly balls also do turn into doubles and triples. Groundballs can generate double plays. I don’t think it’s a cut & dry situation at all. Park factors and defense are important considerations.

[old timer]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

Fly balls also do turn into doubles and triples. Groundballs can generate double plays. I don’t think it’s a cut & dry situation at all. Park factors and defense are important considerations.

Do you know if this is true in the game, though?

[chazzycat]

I don’t know for sure, but those seem like fairly basic baseball concepts to me.

[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by old timer

Do you know if this is true in the game, though?

I find very few ground balls end up in the seats, sir.

[old timer]

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

I find very few ground balls end up in the seats, sir.

I'm not sure you understood my reply. We don't know how OOTP models this so I was asking if fly balls really do turn into doubles and triples. It's possible that those are considered independent of the flyball/groundball ratings. Unless you know otherwise?

[Dogberry99]

As far as I can tell, the best (by OVR rating) rotation one can field of only groundball and extreme groundball pitchers looks like this:

1) Live Clayton Kershaw (99 OVR)
2) 2016 Jose Fernandez (91 OVR) - other Fernandez's do not profile as GB
3) Live Patrick Corbin (89 OVR)
4) Live Future Legend Walker Buehler (87 OVR)
5) Live Dallas Keuchel (84 OVR)

[Late Edit] This list excludes the Future Legend Jordan Hicks card (89 OVR) because, while listed as a Starting Pitcher, it has a stamina of 25.


The bullpen fairs similarly, with the only diamond cards being the Live Treinen, and Record Breakers for Kimbrell (2017) and Uehara (2013).


The bottom line is that Groundball Pitchers simply aren't as readily available as their Flyball colleagues. In fact, the 2 Quisenberry bronze cards may be the only two historic groundballers from before Y2K. They simply do not exist.

It is not possible to be competitive long term while specializing in groundball pitchers.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

As far as I can tell, the best (by OVR rating) rotation one can field of only groundball and extreme groundball pitchers looks like this:

1) Live Clayton Kershaw (99 OVR)
2) 2016 Jose Fernandez (91 OVR) - other Fernandez's do not profile as GB
3) Live Patrick Corbin (89 OVR)
4) Live Future Legend Walker Buehler (87 OVR)
5) Live Dallas Keuchel (84 OVR)

[Late Edit] This list excludes the Future Legend Jordan Hicks card (89 OVR) because, while listed as a Starting Pitcher, it has a stamina of 25.


The bullpen fairs similarly, with the only diamond cards being the Live Treinen, and Record Breakers for Kimbrell (2017) and Uehara (2013).


The bottom line is that Groundball Pitchers simply aren't as readily available as their Flyball colleagues. In fact, the 2 Quisenberry bronze cards may be the only two historic groundballers from before Y2K. They simply do not exist.

It is not possible to be competitive long term while specializing in groundball pitchers.

I just have to point out that it's pretty ridiculous that Kimbrel and Uehara are listed as ground ball pitchers, because they are (were) nowhere close to that IRL.

I'd say that Britton's '16 card is a good gold ground ball pitcher. And his groundball rate was 80%, whereas Koji's was 40.4% in 2013 and Kimbrel's was 37% in 2017.

Jose Fernandez shouldn't be listed as a ground ball pitcher either. He had a 40% rate.

The league average for pitchers in baseball is around 44% depending on the year.

[chazzycat]

I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea to have ALL ground ball pitchers. It’s easy to overspecialize to your home park, which leaves you vulnerable on the road. Balance is good.