Minor League Age/Service Time Restrictions

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by Klew1986

I'm starting a new fictional game and I think I will go with this set up for my minor leagues. How has this worked out in your game?

To be quite honest, I've been messing around with graphics and world setups so much that I havent found a time to test it. But with what I've read, I tend to believe that it would work quite well. The roster limits are there to get ample playing time for everyone (and meets the at least 35 for rookie league requirement) and the service time limits keep everyone in a league at a relatively similar talent level without forcing call-ups too quickly. (Note that service time limits are actually +1, so a limit of 2 would be no more than 3 years.) Also, I think adjusting development and aging a bit would help sustain that.

[NoOne]

i've been using them for a while now... in slightly different ways over that time.

i'd stay away from roster limits. if you want to manipulate that, i'd suggest the League Settings->stats and ai <then, select proper MiL>. add to bench or RP etc. roster limits and too restrictive of rules wil cause unnaturall filling of leagues --either with underdeveloped, overdeveloped, or simply a warm body that merely fits rules and would otherwise have retired etc etc... more is better... keep that in mind. the more restrictive things are, the less likely that awesome prospect plays where the should be playing due to meeting limits or rules in order to field enough players further delaying and potentially hurting his developement.

extra is good. do not think "25" is a good number just because that's the rules for the MLB.. injuries and other causes will drive this number higher as far as need is concerned. with tough rules and limits, it's like one of those stress balls... you squeeze all you want and it;s always teh same volume, just contorted oddly... you don't want you mil system contorted wildly in this analogy.

overall, i'd suggest a less is more approach. do you see a problem while it is running feral? yes, you do have to worry about roster errors, if you do not have enough players created per year for your rules, too. more cause to keep it simple.

i have not tried the new approach, yet. but, this is what i do so far and it works well -- never a roster error with application basic math skills and enough 'filler' for future borderline or better mlb players to progress without consideration to rules and won't cause a dearth at any particular level.

those would be your goals -- no errors, free movement of a large portion of players withtout regard to rules and no problems arising from that. -- whatever you do, you want to sim out as long as your rules imply and then start watching year to year or spot check as you zoom out to make sure you don't run out of players or have some pooling you wish to avoid.

level -- what it means / intent

R-1yr svc time max -- 2 years allowed at r/sa it's just difficult to use age due to large variance in age from draftees and the fact many 21 year olds won't be good enough to play in SA year 1 and may not even make it that far at all.

S-A-2 yr svc time max -- 3 years allowed, after 2 years, just about anyone can play s-a due to age and just a modicum of developement. this will mix with the more advanced college kids from draft from early rounds.

A-24 -- college kids to have ~2-3 years to develope before AA. ** there should only be a handful of 24 year olds on any particular team. 24 is nearing the point of no return as far as development is concerned.. if they can't go AA/AAA in ~2 years, you might as well right them off... this still give ~4 years at AAA before "30" max for the hail marys..

AA - 25? 26? -- ** again, the top age, or even 2 ages shouldn't take up more than a handful of names... more than A-ball, though, for more than the reason of looking at 2 years vs 1.

AAA - max 30 or 32ish etc. even 29 works with this setup relative to AA-age restriction. **again, oldest players should take up more than half the roster... much more than A-AA, of course.

key here is matching # of rounds to mainly your rookie/short a level requirements. in this case i need 2 teams in 3 years... or if i have 2 rookies, i need 3teams in 3 years. ~40rounds would be good for the latter. with only 1 rookie league, you can get by with ~25. easy to guesstimate, eh? figure discoveries and IAFA as a nice bonus (most of those never get beyond A, if not SA. so they don't help much at top levels as far as the math is concerned, so it's better to ignore them)

if you have 3 or more rookies, you can't use "1" svc time limit for rookie level. that's only 2 daft classes for 3 teams or more. 80/3 isn't going to cut it. ~100 would be better, or 50 rounds a year, which is untennable.

a larger system won't be able to do what i suggested without ~50 rounds or more.. more years or going by age alone would be required and testing, of course.

you want at least an extra ~10 players per year that can promote outisde of requirements and not cause a roster error problem with too few players. so, that's why i said "~40" for 2 years allowed for 2 rookie leagues. as long as you leave some common sense between the levels, you can ~easily see if you will run out of players over time.

above all else, whatever you do, allow what you see to dictate your next adjustment, if any are needed. e.g. you consistently see 40 at A and 24 at AA, you may want to reduce age at A or svc time etc... that would push X # to AA. with a few sim years and a few adjustments you can make anything work, eventually.

use a backup of same league, if you don't want to 'cheat' zoom out 10 years and it wil be foreign enough, i'm sure. remove name columns from views or something, etc.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by NoOne

i've been using them for a while now... in slightly different ways over that time.

i'd stay away from roster limits. if you want to manipulate that, i'd suggest the League Settings->stats and ai <then, select proper MiL>. add to bench or RP etc. roster limits and too restrictive of rules wil cause unnaturall filling of leagues --either with underdeveloped, overdeveloped, or simply a warm body that merely fits rules and would otherwise have retired etc etc... more is better... keep that in mind. the more restrictive things are, the less likely that awesome prospect plays where the should be playing due to meeting limits or rules in order to field enough players further delaying and potentially hurting his developement.

extra is good. do not think "25" is a good number just because that's the rules for the MLB.. injuries and other causes will drive this number higher as far as need is concerned. with tough rules and limits, it's like one of those stress balls... you squeeze all you want and it;s always teh same volume, just contorted oddly... you don't want you mil system contorted wildly in this analogy.

overall, i'd suggest a less is more approach. do you see a problem while it is running feral? yes, you do have to worry about roster errors, if you do not have enough players created per year for your rules, too. more cause to keep it simple.

i have not tried the new approach, yet. but, this is what i do so far and it works well -- never a roster error with application basic math skills and enough 'filler' for future borderline or better mlb players to progress without consideration to rules and won't cause a dearth at any particular level.

those would be your goals -- no errors, free movement of a large portion of players withtout regard to rules and no problems arising from that. -- whatever you do, you want to sim out as long as your rules imply and then start watching year to year or spot check as you zoom out to make sure you don't run out of players or have some pooling you wish to avoid.

level -- what it means / intent

R-1yr svc time max -- 2 years allowed at r/sa it's just difficult to use age due to large variance in age from draftees and the fact many 21 year olds won't be good enough to play in SA year 1 and may not even make it that far at all.

S-A-2 yr svc time max -- 3 years allowed, after 2 years, just about anyone can play s-a due to age and just a modicum of developement. this will mix with the more advanced college kids from draft from early rounds.

A-24 -- college kids to have ~2-3 years to develope before AA. ** there should only be a handful of 24 year olds on any particular team. 24 is nearing the point of no return as far as development is concerned.. if they can't go AA/AAA in ~2 years, you might as well right them off... this still give ~4 years at AAA before "30" max for the hail marys..

AA - 25? 26? -- ** again, the top age, or even 2 ages shouldn't take up more than a handful of names... more than A-ball, though, for more than the reason of looking at 2 years vs 1.

AAA - max 30 or 32ish etc. even 29 works with this setup relative to AA-age restriction. **again, oldest players should take up more than half the roster... much more than A-AA, of course.

key here is matching # of rounds to mainly your rookie/short a level requirements. in this case i need 2 teams in 3 years... or if i have 2 rookies, i need 3teams in 3 years. ~40rounds would be good for the latter. with only 1 rookie league, you can get by with ~25. easy to guesstimate, eh? figure discoveries and IAFA as a nice bonus (most of those never get beyond A, if not SA. so they don't help much at top levels as far as the math is concerned, so it's better to ignore them)

if you have 3 or more rookies, you can't use "1" svc time limit for rookie level. that's only 2 daft classes for 3 teams or more. 80/3 isn't going to cut it. ~100 would be better, or 50 rounds a year, which is untennable.

a larger system won't be able to do what i suggested without ~50 rounds or more.. more years or going by age alone would be required and testing, of course.

you want at least an extra ~10 players per year that can promote outisde of requirements and not cause a roster error problem with too few players. so, that's why i said "~40" for 2 years allowed for 2 rookie leagues. as long as you leave some common sense between the levels, you can ~easily see if you will run out of players over time.

above all else, whatever you do, allow what you see to dictate your next adjustment, if any are needed. e.g. you consistently see 40 at A and 24 at AA, you may want to reduce age at A or svc time etc... that would push X # to AA. with a few sim years and a few adjustments you can make anything work, eventually.

use a backup of same league, if you don't want to 'cheat' zoom out 10 years and it wil be foreign enough, i'm sure. remove name columns from views or something, etc.

I think I generally can agree with this, just not with AAA. If you really think about AAA, it's basically an MLB reserve roster. I mean, what if you have a 33 year old vet who's declining and you want to send him down for space? Yes, he can refuse it, but if he doesn't then you're going to send him down so you can keep him. So personally, I think I wouldnt use any restricitions for AAA and just let option years and refusing assignment take over.

Overall though, I personally just want players playing at their talent level without huge rosters so all players at least get some PT.

[RoteLaterne]

Playing with AAA Minor with a 50 player limit there, 25 plrs in majors.
I don't want AI to keep players kind of "lifetime" on AAA roster without giving them a chance to play.

So, I need some kind of "Minor League Free Agency" where AAA players are allowed to become FAs after some time, maybe 5 years on a AAA roster.

Where can I implement that rule?
In other words: Need to have a "MAXimum service time" in AAA

***MLB RULES***
Is it "contract opt-outs"?
Is it "minor league option years"? (but it is how often you can send s.o. down, right? would keep plrs there if never promoted)
Is it "minimum service years for free agency"? (if so, MLB players can also become FAs, right? I don't want that maybe)

***AAA RULES***
Is it "pro service time limit"?

Greetings

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by itsmb8

I think I generally can agree with this, just not with AAA. If you really think about AAA, it's basically an MLB reserve roster. I mean, what if you have a 33 year old vet who's declining and you want to send him down for space? Yes, he can refuse it, but if he doesn't then you're going to send him down so you can keep him. So personally, I think I wouldnt use any restricitions for AAA and just let option years and refusing assignment take over.

Overall though, I personally just want players playing at their talent level without huge rosters so all players at least get some PT.

33 vet that can't stay on an mlb team consistently?

i have no problem with 'that' guy retiring or unused. much rather a younger player get used. any older player with good ratings still plays. i don't have any unusual talent on the FA list.

as far as rehabs, age won't matter.

stashing players is common practice. it will happen no matter what rules you apply or don't apply. imo, better off investing maximum amount on the players that actually play -- a 'better' backup is still junk and only an iota better than any other option.

i actually try to craft the rules to prevent such oddities. i don't want 10 first basemen and 10 RF at AAA with 40 players. the ai simply doesn't handle this at all.. it doesn't even see it to avoid it. i don't want AAA with too large of a 30 year old plus population. yeah, i expect a few per team. you don't see a ton in RL either. a 32 year old AAA guy typically gets a local news article for persaverance.

--------------- general post below, not a reply

edit: oops it's basicalyl what i wrote above, but i have results and many years used with it now... lil tidbits may be useful for those that were using it or trying something similar above.. otherwise, just ignore this portion. i even tried some roster limits, in spite of my previous misgivings about them.

** suggestion for the roster # limits -- don't use them when first testing rules. ensure you have at least 25-30 players at all times on all teams... no bottlenecks, no problems... then, turn on roster rules and double check results -- it evens out what the eye sees. the only players cut will be 'excess' players, if you know there's always enough without those particular rules. i think this is a huge reason why my experience using them was much improved.

i've tested a mostly new system for a while now-- even used some roster limits. not so bad on those if enough players fed to mil and no bottlenecks from rules.

service time only restriction at R-SA. simply too difficult to use age. you will inevitable negatively impact some portion of the prospects using age, unless all your draftees are born in same year per draft class.

"1", or 2 playable years, at Rookie and "2", or 3 playable years total at SA.

after that i only use age for A-ball through AAA. common sense allows for a range of age possibilities. i went with 24 and 25 for A/AA, respectively. the gap you leave here doesn't have to be large with a more simplified system of rules. players will often move up well before age rules, which is a good sign.

for AAA, if you choose, 32-33 is good to go. will help clear a few spots for younger players buried in system.

so far, i don't see too much advanced age at A/AA. it easily keeps up with filing teams and injuries (39rds -- 2 layers of R + SA turnover per 3 years --> feeds 2 A-balls, then single AA/AAA) 117 players for 3 lowest teams over 3 years = enough. covers outright failures and injuries sufficiently.

i've even tried out roster limits again. i left lowest Rookes at unlimited, though. with this system, SA does better with a more normal value like 25-27. also the 'other' rookie league and the 2 A-balls i kept at a lower value 25-27. AA 30, AAA 32-33. With 2 a-balls or 2 at any level, i think about using a non-30 player max. excludes rookie. don't limit rookie.

suprisingly, i didn't see the problems i've seen in the past. i think the major reason is a more well-stocked system. the draft provides enough players. the only thing a roster limit causes is a cut of excess rather than a vacuum for players.

the 1 year age difference at A->AA isn't a bottleneck without a service time rule.

the only thing i see that some people may not like is about ~40 players on the lowest Rookie team. 35-44 is typical, and only an extreme outlier would go higher or lower, but it's really a good sign of good health of system.

i don't see any pooling and the roster limits don't seem to keep older players in lower rungs nor all old wrinklies in the upper 2-3 levels.

you really gotta do the math on how many players you are providing and whether it's enough for how many teams there are at any level per org,.. how many duplicates owned by same team? if you ensure excess, even in a "low-tide" year, your roster size limits won't have any negative effects. (within reason.. you don't want each team cutting 100's of players to FA each year, lol)

EDIT high-a -- since this is a real level now, i'd shift tihngs down from the current age i use now. i still want a 25-26 year old going to AAA or cut by that age. 25-24-23 AA/A+/A type idea. or even use same age for A/A+ really wouldn't matter much.

of all the renditions i've tried over the years, this is the one that makes me the happiest -- so far.

with a real-life mil system, you'll have to do things differently. some teams have ~4 rookie teams? but only minor adjustments dictated by common sense of guesstimating # of players from draft settings.

[jimmysthebestcop]

I play with all real life Service Time and Roster limits in place in all my universes since 19' launched. Never had any problems. Hated it without it. There was just too many players in the league.

Does this mean that someone who might be an all-star gets cut before he shines? Absolutely. Will the AI do it? yes. Will the human do it? Yes. Just like in real life your never too sure. I didn't play with the inactive roster limit for the A balls. I just left those extra 10 off.

I don't ever see those 40 year old career minor leaguers either. The AI knows he has to get rid of whoever doesn't fit in each level.

But putting limits on your minors does increase player time spent managing it. Unless you leave it completely up to your assistant GM. But I would assume most players using limits wouldn't want to hand stuff like that over to the AI.

If you are running your entire organization. yes this does mean if you have like 50 players on the injury list you probably will have to sign some any random free agent just to fill the spot.But I'm ok with that.

At the end of the year you will have to do a lot of trimming. Cause those 50 players come off the disabled list and then your +50 players too many. So that is at least 50 cuts not to mention all the cuts from the draft. You draft 40 players you might only be able to fit 20 at that time. So again cuts are to be made.

I don't really do that many Major League trades but minor league trades I go completely overboard with. Because there will be players due to roster limit and service length you can't fit on your teams but others teams can use them. So I make countless minor league deals. I'm addicted and I have a problem.

So its always a thing each year. Do lots of cuts and as many trades as possible to trade players that can't fit in your organization for players that can.

Now if you don't micromange to that level then you'll probably be ok. But be warned its addictive. I spend so much more time in my minors then at my major league level. Majors is either bad and not much I can do about it. Or winning and I don't have to do anything about it.