Competitive Balance?

mondokoko · 11-21-2018, 02:56 PM

Since the option to buy points has been implemented the distance between the haves and have-nots has increased noticeably. In my league teams who have not invested as much cash in buying points are being dominated by teams that have. The dominant teams have, for the most part, loaded up on 80+ and 90+ players. Those of us who haven't are getting by with a few 80's and 70+ players - and are getting shellacked. I know there must be exceptions, but a quick scan of standings and rosters shows the difference. It may not be possible to buy a pennant, but it seems that if we don't invest heavily in buying PP, we won't have much of a chance. This makes the game less fun and less competitive than it was in the first couple of iterations when you had to be strategic to do well. It's like the MLB structure before salary caps, when some teams were perpetually on top while others were in the toilet.

Orcin · 11-21-2018, 03:03 PM

How do you know which teams have purchased points? Is it possible to have a good team without buying points? Certainly.

Kushiel · 11-21-2018, 03:06 PM

I disagree

I bought PP as I outlined in detail on another post. But I won 87% in the pool before the rookie league started. Then I was in first in Rookie League by several games before the PP went on sale. Most of my team is put together from selling cards from packs I have opened and flipping cards, along with I have a plan for achievements which has worked well so I have have turned my roster over this way from LH to RH dominant. I did by putting in the time required to achieve success. I had a slow start at 3-7 with changes I made but now into June I am breathing down the collar of the first place team who is now feeling the heat from the Dragons' breath. Good luck on your endeavor in the game and have a Happy Thanksgiving

vapodge · 11-21-2018, 03:48 PM

I really think people underestimate how much luck factors in with this game mode. I joined halfway through the first week and have not spent a cent (I'm on Origin -- no points shop yet) and cruised to a first place finish and LCS loss in my first season. Currently have the best record in my league now. Have four diamonds and I believe eight golds. I've never bought from the AH and have only sold commons for <100 PP. All my packs were regular packs and purchased with earned PP. It can be done.
My experience may be atypical, but don't think all the successful teams have been paying their way to victory.

mitchkenn · 11-21-2018, 04:24 PM

i haven't spent a dime. i've managed to get a team of mostly silvers through the auction blocks by bidding on select cards to fill a specific need. my luck in buying cards is terrible. usually getting the minimum promised. so i stay with the auctions.
i've been about middle of the pack, made playoffs once and just under .500 this season. i've beaten a few very good teams in a series, and lost to some very poor ones. sort of what you'd expect. lately, changed my focus and now trying to get as many Giants on my roster as i can (right now mainly reserves).
it really doesn't bother me if people make whales, buy whales or flip cards to get there. my goal is to make my team as competitive as i can, within the limits of no-card buying.
Too bad i decided to try to collect Giants card this late, as soon they'll all get wiped away and i'll have to decide if there is a next step and in what direction i'll drift.

mondokoko · 11-21-2018, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

How do you know which teams have purchased points? Is it possible to have a good team without buying points? Certainly.

You're correct - you can't know when a team has purchased points, but it can be inferred. In my division, there are 2 teams with 11 and 13 players rated 80+ on their rosters. On the other 3 teams, there are 1, 3, and 5 players rated 80+. The first 2 teams are the only ones over .500 (by 20 and 5 games), the other 3 are under .500 by 4-20 games. In addition, the top two teams are the only ones with players rated 90+ and both have 4 players rated 89. There other teams don't even come close in terms of raw auction value. How else could this disparity reasonably come about? Were the top teams just extremely lucky in buying packs?

One Post Wonder · 11-21-2018, 06:27 PM

My own team has something like 13 80+ players. It's not hard to do if you put time in the AH.

Furthermore I'd say about half of the best players aren't even diamonds. A fair percentage aren't even gold. These 'Whales' that people are talking about don't challenge me as much as the teams which are well run, and I can tell the difference between the two just by looking at their rosters.

I'm 100% sure I could build a team that doesn't have a single player rated above 79 and sneak it into AA. I don't think I'd win AA with it, but you can make a perfectly respectable team with silvers.

I am amazed that this thread hasn't been closed yet.

Kushiel · 11-21-2018, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondokoko

You're correct - you can't know when a team has purchased points, but it can be inferred. In my division, there are 2 teams with 11 and 13 players rated 80+ on their rosters. On the other 3 teams, there are 1, 3, and 5 players rated 80+. The first 2 teams are the only ones over .500 (by 20 and 5 games), the other 3 are under .500 by 4-20 games. In addition, the top two teams are the only ones with players rated 90+ and both have 4 players rated 89. There other teams don't even come close in terms of raw auction value. How else could this disparity reasonably come about? Were the top teams just extremely lucky in buying packs?

When it comes down to it the player,you and me, must find a way to compete. Whether we are lucky, very good, or financially. The best thing is to find a medium over time that you individually can deal with to make your own team better. If you worry too much about what the next player may have instead of striving to improve your own circumstances, then you will never find happiness with the game. As has been stated over and over again there was a bug that helped an unidentified number. This is beta so no big deal. Some players have been very lucky, others have worked the auction house and their roster skillfully. Still others have bought X number of cards. Now, all of these people have done well. By using brains, luck, and a little money combining all three traits you can do very well. If you are very good then you can do very well with 2 of 3 of these methods. So how do you identify who done what? It is of no consequence. In the words of the late, great Chief Dan George, " We must endeavor to persevere."

Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving.

One Post Wonder · 11-21-2018, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vapodge

I really think people underestimate how much luck factors in with this game mode.

People keep saying this. But honestly a good, well run team will always beat a crap team over the course of 162 games. Especially since there are no injuries in PT.

And a well run team will also beat a team where a guy just bought a bunch of high OVR players and threw them out there. A pennant race decided by 1 or 2 games is luck, but the big things aren't decided by luck. And nor should they be luck.

I'm talking about W/L records here ofc. Nothing else.

Maddox · 11-21-2018, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondokoko

Since the option to buy points has been implemented the distance between the haves and have-nots has increased noticeably. In my league teams who have not invested as much cash in buying points are being dominated by teams that have. The dominant teams have, for the most part, loaded up on 80+ and 90+ players. Those of us who haven't are getting by with a few 80's and 70+ players - and are getting shellacked. I know there must be exceptions, but a quick scan of standings and rosters shows the difference. It may not be possible to buy a pennant, but it seems that if we don't invest heavily in buying PP, we won't have much of a chance. This makes the game less fun and less competitive than it was in the first couple of iterations when you had to be strategic to do well. It's like the MLB structure before salary caps, when some teams were perpetually on top while others were in the toilet.

Once the mode goes live you will need to give it, I would say, 4-6 weeks to sort itself out through promotion and relegation. Most of the stacked teams will be promoted to higher level leagues more quickly, leaving the lower tier leagues for those of us without stacked teams.

I can already see that things are more competitive in my second season of A league. The best teams were moved up. We only have one team left who is stacked and, if this was not beta, they would be promoted next week

Orcin · 11-21-2018, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondokoko

You're correct - you can't know when a team has purchased points, but it can be inferred. In my division, there are 2 teams with 11 and 13 players rated 80+ on their rosters. On the other 3 teams, there are 1, 3, and 5 players rated 80+. The first 2 teams are the only ones over .500 (by 20 and 5 games), the other 3 are under .500 by 4-20 games. In addition, the top two teams are the only ones with players rated 90+ and both have 4 players rated 89. There other teams don't even come close in terms of raw auction value. How else could this disparity reasonably come about? Were the top teams just extremely lucky in buying packs?

NO, it can't be inferred either. It is quite possible, easy in fact, for someone to have 13 gold or better players on their roster in the third week of play without having spent a dime. I opened a pack with a perfect Chris Sale and sold the card for 55,000pp. That is 11 gold packs right there and I got a twelfth gold card free to start the game.

Markus Heinsohn · 11-22-2018, 07:24 AM

We have discussed this topic at length before.

Please keep this is one place:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=295297

11-21-2018, 02:56 PM	#1
mondokoko Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20	Competitive Balance? Since the option to buy points has been implemented the distance between the haves and have-nots has increased noticeably. In my league teams who have not invested as much cash in buying points are being dominated by teams that have. The dominant teams have, for the most part, loaded up on 80+ and 90+ players. Those of us who haven't are getting by with a few 80's and 70+ players - and are getting shellacked. I know there must be exceptions, but a quick scan of standings and rosters shows the difference. It may not be possible to buy a pennant, but it seems that if we don't invest heavily in buying PP, we won't have much of a chance. This makes the game less fun and less competitive than it was in the first couple of iterations when you had to be strategic to do well. It's like the MLB structure before salary caps, when some teams were perpetually on top while others were in the toilet.

11-21-2018, 03:06 PM	#3
Kushiel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas Posts: 1,810	I disagree I bought PP as I outlined in detail on another post. But I won 87% in the pool before the rookie league started. Then I was in first in Rookie League by several games before the PP went on sale. Most of my team is put together from selling cards from packs I have opened and flipping cards, along with I have a plan for achievements which has worked well so I have have turned my roster over this way from LH to RH dominant. I did by putting in the time required to achieve success. I had a slow start at 3-7 with changes I made but now into June I am breathing down the collar of the first place team who is now feeling the heat from the Dragons' breath. Good luck on your endeavor in the game and have a Happy Thanksgiving __________________ *Favente Deo supero*

11-21-2018, 04:24 PM	#5
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,872	i haven't spent a dime. i've managed to get a team of mostly silvers through the auction blocks by bidding on select cards to fill a specific need. my luck in buying cards is terrible. usually getting the minimum promised. so i stay with the auctions. i've been about middle of the pack, made playoffs once and just under .500 this season. i've beaten a few very good teams in a series, and lost to some very poor ones. sort of what you'd expect. lately, changed my focus and now trying to get as many Giants on my roster as i can (right now mainly reserves). it really doesn't bother me if people make whales, buy whales or flip cards to get there. my goal is to make my team as competitive as i can, within the limits of no-card buying. Too bad i decided to try to collect Giants card this late, as soon they'll all get wiped away and i'll have to decide if there is a next step and in what direction i'll drift. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip.

11-22-2018, 07:24 AM	#12
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	We have discussed this topic at length before. Please keep this is one place: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=295297 __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

11-21-2018, 03:03 PM	#2
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,881	How do you know which teams have purchased points? Is it possible to have a good team without buying points? Certainly.

11-21-2018, 03:48 PM	#4
vapodge Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 111	I really think people underestimate how much luck factors in with this game mode. I joined halfway through the first week and have not spent a cent (I'm on Origin -- no points shop yet) and cruised to a first place finish and LCS loss in my first season. Currently have the best record in my league now. Have four diamonds and I believe eight golds. I've never bought from the AH and have only sold commons for <100 PP. All my packs were regular packs and purchased with earned PP. It can be done. My experience may be atypical, but don't think all the successful teams have been paying their way to victory.

11-21-2018, 06:27 PM	#7
One Post Wonder All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 538	My own team has something like 13 80+ players. It's not hard to do if you put time in the AH. Furthermore I'd say about half of the best players aren't even diamonds. A fair percentage aren't even gold. These 'Whales' that people are talking about don't challenge me as much as the teams which are well run, and I can tell the difference between the two just by looking at their rosters. I'm 100% sure I could build a team that doesn't have a single player rated above 79 and sneak it into AA. I don't think I'd win AA with it, but you can make a perfectly respectable team with silvers. I am amazed that this thread hasn't been closed yet.