Why are we being forced to be part of Perfect Team Beta??

whaleheader · 11-19-2018, 08:46 AM

I fairly recently migrated an 18 member existing league to OOTP. Although most of the guys followed my advice and purchased through Steam, three guys bought the game directly.

The constant updates are a pain in the ass. Guys are just getting their heads around the league file downloads and exports process and having to constantly resend exports is only making the transition (which some of the guys opposed) more difficult.Two of the three guys who bought directly aren't particularly computer literate. You are killing them.

I get that you have a new feature but making customers who aren't interested in the feature forcibly part of your beta program is not a customer service win.

Palaaemon · 11-19-2018, 08:50 AM

If none you are playing PT you do not need to download the updates. Hope this brightens your day.

Lukas Berger · 11-19-2018, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleheader

I fairly recently migrated an 18 member existing league to OOTP. Although most of the guys followed my advice and purchased through Steam, three guys bought the game directly.

The constant updates are a pain in the ass. Guys are just getting their heads around the league file downloads and exports process and having to constantly resend exports is only making the transition (which some of the guys opposed) more difficult.Two of the three guys who bought directly aren't particularly computer literate. You are killing them.

I get that you have a new feature but making customers who aren't interested in the feature forcibly part of your beta program is not a customer service win.

Each of the patches so far, except for the one today, have also contained updates and improvements for the regular game. We improved sim and loading speeds in the regular game by around 20% with one of the last couple patches, for example.

So it's not a matter of forcing people to be part of the beta, we're just releasing patches that improve both parts of the game. Yes the driving force is implementing PT, and that's seeing the majority of the changes, but it's not the only thing, by any means.

Lukas Berger · 11-19-2018, 08:57 AM

Beyond that though, unfortunately it's technically impossible for us to update PT without also releasing a patch that affects the regular game since both PT and the regular game are part of the same program.

clamel · 11-19-2018, 09:14 AM

But this latest patch
Version 19.9.117

is strictgly PT stuff. If I understand this correct, BUT other later patches could be involving "normal" game bugs.

I take it that you make this 100% clear each and every time a new patch is made available, so no misunderstanding at all will happen.

I understand that some "unseen/unknown" stuff might spill over to the "normal" game even if it isn't mentioned, but that is collateral damage (or repair) one might understand.
Always afraid that "poking" in one end mess the other end without knowing the results until a bit later. Your focus is now 100% on PT for sure.

Markus Heinsohn · 11-19-2018, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clamel

But this latest patch
Version 19.9.117

is strictgly PT stuff. If I understand this correct, BUT other later patches could be involving "normal" game bugs.

I take it that you make this 100% clear each and every time a new patch is made available, so no misunderstanding at all will happen.

I understand that some "unseen/unknown" stuff might spill over to the "normal" game even if it isn't mentioned, but that is collateral damage (or repair) one might understand.
Always afraid that "poking" in one end mess the other end without knowing the results until a bit later. Your focus is now 100% on PT for sure.

Ii you do not play PT, simply ignore these patches unless the changelist includes something not related to PT

Solonor · 11-19-2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Ii you do not play PT, simply ignore these patches unless the changelist includes something not related to PT

Except that you can't if you're running it from Steam.

I'm mostly concerned that I got an update for this a week ago that broke my online league players who don't use the Steam version. That should be ok from now on, as everything's backwards compatible to 19.9.111, right? And you won't put out new versions without alerting us that online league members also need to upgrade, right?

Let'sGoBraves · 11-19-2018, 12:54 PM

Exactly...every thread that complains about the impact to leqgues of all these patches complains about the same thing and every response tells them not to worry about , just don't download the patch. Steam auto-upgrades. If some league members are on steam, the esellerate owners must install the patch. Constantly telling people they dont have to install it is only pissing off that crowd more and dismissing their arguement. There os no way to patch the game for PT without making members of a mixed owner league not upgrade. Ownership should have just said that up front weeks ago and the rest of you that suggest they just pipe down and ignore the patches aren't helping. It is two games in one so fixing one half impacts the whole. Is what it is and it is frustrating. This board has developed quite the tradition of telling people who complain about something that doesn't effect you to hush. The first response in this thread did just that as has every other thread on this topic. They usually get closed in 2 days when the same comments just pile on.

bertha · 11-19-2018, 01:12 PM

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

Zorro · 11-19-2018, 01:28 PM

Steam seems like a pain in the ass?

Rain King · 11-19-2018, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorro

Steam seems like a pain in the ass?

That's definitely my takeaway here.

Cactusguy21 · 11-19-2018, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

That's definitely my takeaway here.

Steam: At least we're not Origin

whaleheader · 11-19-2018, 03:48 PM

Steam isn't a pain in the ass. It's actually much easier to update the game and keep people on the same version.

I have 15 people with Steam. I have 3 people who missed my suggestion to purchase via Steam and bought it directly. It's not a coincidence they are also some of the least computer savvy members of my league.

Since I have the league file, as soon as I load OOTP Steam updates my game. Any exports previously submitted are now out of sync with the the league file. People then need to update their version and reexport their teams.

That's a problem for busy people who play the game as a hobby. They just want the game to work so they can play. They don't want to work to play the game.

Palaaemon · 11-19-2018, 04:01 PM

Sorry about the confusion Whaleheader. I did not realize that this last DL had changes that affected both the main game and PT.

hluraven · 11-19-2018, 04:30 PM

The patch notes say
"Info for online leagues: This build is compatible with build 19.9.111 or later."

So it shouldn't cause a problem at all.

Shoeless' Socks · 11-19-2018, 06:45 PM

It's simple, one of these modes will make them additional money, the other will not. What I WOULD like to hear from Markus, and especially considering that the OOTP community is so loyal and tight knit etc. is WHY this move to micro transactions is being made. Will money be put back into the overall game? NO ONE begrudges OOTP, or Markus etc. of making more money. But a little more transparency into the situation would be helpful.

Being frank, I do not believe that Perfect Team will last or be anything other than a one or maybe two version fad. People will IMO lose interest and especially when it truly becomes pay to win, etc.

And as far as the other comments about PT and these incessant patches effecting online leagues, I'd almost respect Markus and OOTP more if they'd simply say, "Yes, we know that these patches and constant updating etc toward PT is harming online play but we need to make a profit etc. and you all need to just deal". Instead, we receive these sort of mixed messages when it is known that a large majority of the online league users utilize Steam, and are of an age where they are not very computer literate.

This needs some serious soul searching in this offseason as the company moves toward the next version. How about a stand alone app or version for Perfect Team? I personally have less than zero interest in ever even looking at Perfect Team. I have a feeling that there are MANY more people interested in online leagues and solo play than there are PT and also MUCH fewer people that would have ONLY interest in Perfect Team and NO interest in solo or online.

Just my thoughts.

low · 11-19-2018, 07:10 PM

Steam users can turn off auto updating. Right click on game, select properties.

EDIT: Guess not. Not sure when they changed it, but they changed it. Games can be played in "offline mode". See post further down.

Solonor · 11-19-2018, 08:42 PM

Thank you for the suggestion. I stopped following the forum for a while, so I didn't know that Perfect Team was a thing that was coming or that it was going to impact my game. Thus, I didn't know to turn off Steam auto updates.

Since one of the main reasons I got the Steam version was to keep the software updated, turning that feature off didn't leap to the front of my mind!

EDIT: Never mind. There is no option to turn off updates. The three options there are:

1. Always keep this game up to date
2. Only update this game when I launch it
3. High priority - Always auto-update this game before others

low · 11-19-2018, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solonor

Thank you for the suggestion. I stopped following the forum for a while, so I didn't know that Perfect Team was a thing that was coming or that it was going to impact my game. Thus, I didn't know to turn off Steam auto updates.

Since one of the main reasons I got the Steam version was to keep the software updated, turning that feature off didn't leap to the front of my mind!

EDIT: Never mind. There is no option to turn off updates. The three options there are:

1. Always keep this game up to date
2. Only update this game when I launch it
3. High priority - Always auto-update this game before others

Steam apparently doesn't let us completely stop updates anymore. Not sure when that changed but I missed the memo since I never use it. You can, however, start the game in offline mode which will prevent updates from happening. Change your game settings to option 2, then switch Steam into offline mode before playing.

Charley575 · 11-20-2018, 12:19 AM

Try under the "Betas" tab. For some games several previous versions of the game are listed ad you can choose which version to be on. I dn't have OOTP through Steam but I play Kerbal Space Program through Steam and I know I can do it with Kerbal.

11-19-2018, 08:46 AM	#1
whaleheader Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 312	Why are we being forced to be part of Perfect Team Beta?? I fairly recently migrated an 18 member existing league to OOTP. Although most of the guys followed my advice and purchased through Steam, three guys bought the game directly. The constant updates are a pain in the ass. Guys are just getting their heads around the league file downloads and exports process and having to constantly resend exports is only making the transition (which some of the guys opposed) more difficult.Two of the three guys who bought directly aren't particularly computer literate. You are killing them. I get that you have a new feature but making customers who aren't interested in the feature forcibly part of your beta program is not a customer service win.

11-19-2018, 08:50 AM	#2
Palaaemon Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 263	If none you are playing PT you do not need to download the updates. Hope this brightens your day. __________________ I don't have to run faster than the bear, just faster than you.

11-19-2018, 08:57 AM	#4
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 22,201	Beyond that though, unfortunately it's technically impossible for us to update PT without also releasing a patch that affects the regular game since both PT and the regular game are part of the same program. __________________ lukas@ootpdevelopments.com Buy Out of the Park Baseball 27! Need to upload files for us to check out? Instructions can be found here

11-19-2018, 04:01 PM	#14
Palaaemon Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 263	Sorry about the confusion Whaleheader. I did not realize that this last DL had changes that affected both the main game and PT. __________________ I don't have to run faster than the bear, just faster than you.

11-19-2018, 06:45 PM	#16
Shoeless' Socks Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 164	It's simple, one of these modes will make them additional money, the other will not. What I WOULD like to hear from Markus, and especially considering that the OOTP community is so loyal and tight knit etc. is WHY this move to micro transactions is being made. Will money be put back into the overall game? NO ONE begrudges OOTP, or Markus etc. of making more money. But a little more transparency into the situation would be helpful. Being frank, I do not believe that Perfect Team will last or be anything other than a one or maybe two version fad. People will IMO lose interest and especially when it truly becomes pay to win, etc. And as far as the other comments about PT and these incessant patches effecting online leagues, I'd almost respect Markus and OOTP more if they'd simply say, "Yes, we know that these patches and constant updating etc toward PT is harming online play but we need to make a profit etc. and you all need to just deal". Instead, we receive these sort of mixed messages when it is known that a large majority of the online league users utilize Steam, and are of an age where they are not very computer literate. This needs some serious soul searching in this offseason as the company moves toward the next version. How about a stand alone app or version for Perfect Team? I personally have less than zero interest in ever even looking at Perfect Team. I have a feeling that there are MANY more people interested in online leagues and solo play than there are PT and also MUCH fewer people that would have ONLY interest in Perfect Team and NO interest in solo or online. Just my thoughts. Last edited by Shoeless' Socks; 11-19-2018 at 09:11 PM.

11-19-2018, 09:14 AM	#5
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,042	But this latest patch Version 19.9.117 is strictgly PT stuff. If I understand this correct, BUT other later patches could be involving "normal" game bugs. I take it that you make this 100% clear each and every time a new patch is made available, so no misunderstanding at all will happen. I understand that some "unseen/unknown" stuff might spill over to the "normal" game even if it isn't mentioned, but that is collateral damage (or repair) one might understand. Always afraid that "poking" in one end mess the other end without knowing the results until a bit later. Your focus is now 100% on PT for sure.

11-19-2018, 12:54 PM	#8
Let'sGoBraves Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 98	Exactly...every thread that complains about the impact to leqgues of all these patches complains about the same thing and every response tells them not to worry about , just don't download the patch. Steam auto-upgrades. If some league members are on steam, the esellerate owners must install the patch. Constantly telling people they dont have to install it is only pissing off that crowd more and dismissing their arguement. There os no way to patch the game for PT without making members of a mixed owner league not upgrade. Ownership should have just said that up front weeks ago and the rest of you that suggest they just pipe down and ignore the patches aren't helping. It is two games in one so fixing one half impacts the whole. Is what it is and it is frustrating. This board has developed quite the tradition of telling people who complain about something that doesn't effect you to hush. The first response in this thread did just that as has every other thread on this topic. They usually get closed in 2 days when the same comments just pile on.

11-19-2018, 01:12 PM	#9
bertha Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 35	subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

11-19-2018, 01:28 PM	#10
Zorro Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,944	Steam seems like a pain in the ass?

11-19-2018, 03:48 PM	#13
whaleheader Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 312	Steam isn't a pain in the ass. It's actually much easier to update the game and keep people on the same version. I have 15 people with Steam. I have 3 people who missed my suggestion to purchase via Steam and bought it directly. It's not a coincidence they are also some of the least computer savvy members of my league. Since I have the league file, as soon as I load OOTP Steam updates my game. Any exports previously submitted are now out of sync with the the league file. People then need to update their version and reexport their teams. That's a problem for busy people who play the game as a hobby. They just want the game to work so they can play. They don't want to work to play the game.

11-19-2018, 04:30 PM	#15
hluraven Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London, England Posts: 357	The patch notes say "Info for online leagues: This build is compatible with build 19.9.111 or later." So it shouldn't cause a problem at all.

11-19-2018, 07:10 PM	#17
low Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 6,250	Steam users can turn off auto updating. Right click on game, select properties. EDIT: Guess not. Not sure when they changed it, but they changed it. Games can be played in "offline mode". See post further down. Attached Images __________________ My fictional team logos and uniforms Last edited by low; 11-19-2018 at 11:49 PM.

11-19-2018, 08:42 PM	#18
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,467	Thank you for the suggestion. I stopped following the forum for a while, so I didn't know that Perfect Team was a thing that was coming or that it was going to impact my game. Thus, I didn't know to turn off Steam auto updates. Since one of the main reasons I got the Steam version was to keep the software updated, turning that feature off didn't leap to the front of my mind! EDIT: Never mind. There is no option to turn off updates. The three options there are: 1. Always keep this game up to date 2. Only update this game when I launch it 3. High priority - Always auto-update this game before others __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams Last edited by Solonor; 11-19-2018 at 09:41 PM.

11-20-2018, 12:19 AM	#20
Charley575 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 544	Try under the "Betas" tab. For some games several previous versions of the game are listed ad you can choose which version to be on. I dn't have OOTP through Steam but I play Kerbal Space Program through Steam and I know I can do it with Kerbal.