el_gringo's Guide to Maximizing a F2P Approach to PT

[el_gringo]

Hi all,

There have been a lot of threads about questions and concerns about monetization/the general game design. I've been among the skeptics, am not sold on all of it, and will probably keep pestering Markus and his team to be as generous with the fanbase as the financial reality of his company allows until the day he gets so sick of me he kicks me off the forums, late some night after a long day of coding and one post too many from my meddling ass . If you're looking for perfectly non-coercive monetization, you've got to go back to Valve's ecosystem (or a few other select, small ones that only monetize cosmetics or other non-gameplay-related items). Long Live TF2.

That all being said, I've worked at my share of game companies, areas of expertise are econ/psych/data related, and PT is pretty excellent IMO.

So, in the interest of helping some people prevent the perfect from being the enemy of the good (and likely to improve over time), I humbly present:

el_gringo's Guide (in progress) to Maximizing a F2P Approach to PT

• Get in the 'rebuilding' mindset. If you're not spending money, you're going to need to get the ball rolling somehow. Get ready to make hard choices and cut loose key assets.

• 'Stabilize' as many positions as you can with the lowest-rated player you're comfortable starting (see more below). If you can spend <100 PP in the AH to stabilize a position where you have a high-rated player who doesn't fit your team, you can auction the strong player with minor impact and get a large return.

• Pick a niche within the meta game and lean into it - customize your park, customize your team and player strategies, and sell off anyone who doesn't fit the theme or currently stabilize a position.

• Auction off any Silver+ cards that don't fit your strategy - the resultant PP, if spent carefully at the AH, will do more spread across Standard/Bronze cards at the early stage.

• Play the long game with positions, and look at raw stats. Don't be afraid to re-train players for new positions. Don't be afraid of losing a few games to errors in order to transition a card to a much better role on your team. This helps 'stabilize' a lot, if you are willing to re-train many players at once and get creative.

• Always check the OF ratings of infielders and IF ratings of outfielders, sometimes people aren't playing where they maybe should in the MLB... Roster flexibility is key.

• Always have a plan for how each player moves through your organization as you progressively upgrade pieces. Prioritize players who can stabilize multiple positions.

• Switch hitters are great for lineup flexibility, find as many useful ones as you can. They often also fit the budget 'good defense, solid hitting and running, lower power' profile that can be cost-effective.

• Be aware of the low-rated Standard/Bronze 'gems' to help you stabilize. These cards are common enough to be pulled often, are not quite good enough to make the cut on a more high-spending team, and tend to have one or two particular deficiency(ies) (often power and/or eye for hitters, stuff for pitchers), which makes them relatively cheap on the AH because they don't fit the meta. Don't underestimate old players - they excelled at a different meta than today, and are therefore potentially underrated.
  
  I've listed a few I've found so far below, please chime in in the comments with your own and I'll add them to the list (please format similarly so I can just copy/paste them in)!
  
  C:
  -Elias Diaz: 61 [++ defense, solid & balanced hitting profile]
  -Austin Hedges (63) has fantastic Catcher Ability and has decent enough vR splits. [Thanks, sansterre!]
  -Butch Wynegar: 64 [+/++ defense, solid & balanced hitting, switch hitter]
  
  
  IF:
  -Luis Guillorme: 44 [Elite IF defense, passable hitting and running if you don't need power]
  -Edgar Renteria: 51 [Solid IF defense, passable hitting, ++ running]
  -Miguel Rojas: 51 [Solid IF/OF defense, passable hitting and running]
  -Breyvic Valera: 56 [Versatile, solid defender anywhere except C, solid hitting and base running if you don't need power]
  -Ehire Adrianza: 59 [++ IF defense, passable running, + gap power]
  -Dee Gordon: 59 [Elite speed and stealing, + hitting if you don't need power or eye, can play anywhere except C]
  -Mark Belanger: 60 [Elite IF defense, passable hitting and base running if you don't need power]
  -Luis Aparicio: 60 [Elite IF defense, elite speed and stealing, + hitting if you don't need power or eye]
  -Elivs Andrus: 63 [+ contact, gap, and avoid K's, + running, solid IF defense]
  -Vern Stephens (65) is a solid all around infielder who hits righties enough but has nice pop against lefties. [Thanks, sansterre!]
  -Carlos Santana (66) makes for a decent 3B (not good enough for a fielding-heavy build) with strong vR splits. [Thanks, sansterre!]
  -Adam Frazier: 68 [Versatile, passable defender anywhere except C, +/++ hitting & running]
  
  OF:
  -Ichiro (any version) [Obviously his peak/rookie/etc. are more than capable of holding down RF, though they'll be among the most popular bronze cards. His Live card though, not reflecting his true 2018 performance, is a surprisingly solid and common 58-rated OF card.]
  -Victor Reyes: 44 [+ OF defense, passable hitting, + running]
  -Ramiel Tapia: 61 [++ OF defense, + contact, gap, avoid K's, speed, and stealing]
  -Billy Hamilton: 61 [Elite OF defense (especially LF), elite speed and stealing, passable hitting]
  -Jason Heyward: 64 [++ OF defense at all three spots, + hitting profile (nicely balanced)]
  -Kevin Kiermaier: 65 [Elite OF defense, solid hitting and running, + gap power]
  -Ender Inciarte: 65 [++ OF defense, + balanced hitting, solid running]
  -Kevin Pillar: 66 [Elite OF defense, solid hitting, + running and gap power]
  -Nick Markakis (69) makes him an expensive Bronze, but his vR splits are fantastic and he's a solid fielder. [Thanks, sansterre!]
  
  SP
  Mike Leake: 65 [Solid innings-eater, pitches well to ground ball contact with a good IF defense behind him]
  
  RP
  Dan Quisenberry: 60 [pitches well to neutral contact with good general defense behind him]
  
  [Affordable, stabilizing pitching seems harder to come by than positional players, so I recommend (at least for now) prioritizing spending on position players, then your bullpen, then finally your rotation. The rotation is arguably the most sensible place to make a big purchase, so doing so later makes sense - prices will come down as more packs are opened, and you'll do better by saving up a lot of PP for the exact pitcher you want while getting creative with your lineup.]

• Don't get overly attached to any auctions. There will be another shot at that player, even if there aren't any more in the AH right now. Don't overpay due to impatience - wait until there are several of the card you want all ending near each other so you get good deals.

• Shop the AH at odd times.

• Always check the 'End Time (Asc.)' filter for good deals slipping by unnoticed.

• Don't auto-sell/quick-sell cards if you can avoid it. You never know who might pay you a few extra PP for that standard/bronze card you thought was totally worthless. At the very least, put them up for the minimum list price, 48 hour action, and check the 'sell if nobody bids' box. You'll be surprised at how much PP you get from some of those cards.

• List your auctions to be as long as you can if you don't need the PP immediately for another particular auction ending soon. The more people see your listing, the better, generally speaking.

• Check for identical and/or comparable (same position, same general hitting/pitching profile, etc.) auctions in order to carefully inform pricing. Don't list your card if there are already several identical ones pushing prices down if you can avoid it.

• Don't be afraid of losing. You might need to auction off most of your starting rotation, or your whole OF, in order to get the first few thousand PP you need to stabilize. You can still get plenty of PP from achievements even when losing (fewer, of course, but still plenty).

• Take a break. You know how a watched pot never boils? Ya, that. Focus on something else for a while, and often you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much PP you come back to, or how many new and cheap cards have found their way to the AH.

I'm sure I'll think of more in due time, but that's a start.

Let's Play Ball!

[Whoofe]

good stuff

some of this I have learned in the first day, some of it is new to me (editing ballparks factor is something I had not considered!)

[Orcin]

Great guide, gringo! I particularly like your "Moneyball" list of players. It is a smart long-term play to put together a cheap team to play early while auctioning off your glamorous but perhaps over-rated golds.

My two cents worth:
- don't forget the auction fee when pricing your cards (you lose 2 points selling a bronze at auction for 25PP, price at 30 instead - it will still sell)
- if you find an overlooked auction bargain, don't hesitate to pick it up and flip it for a profit
- check relievers to see if they have three pitches and good stamina; just like position players they may have been "playing out of position" in MLB this year

[sansterre]

Great post! I've been thinking similar things in my open beta experience, but nothing so well thought out!

As far as bargains I suggest:

Nick Markakis (69) makes him an expensive Bronze, but his vR splits are fantastic and he's a solid fielder.

Austin Hedges (63) has fantastic Catcher Ability and has decent enough vR splits.

Carlos Santana (66) makes for a decent 3B (not good enough for a fielding-heavy build) with strong vR splits.

Vern Stephens (65) is a solid all around infielder who hits righties enough but has nice pop against lefties.

No pressure obviously, this is your post, but these are all players that I've used to hold down positions while I sold off higher-rated players at their positions.

[drhay53]

I am confused by your retraining comments here and elsewhere. Do cards actually gain experience at the positions you play them?

IMO this seems wrong and should be disabled. Unless we're going to get some kind of full-fledged card leveling system or something.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by drhay53

I am confused by your retraining comments here and elsewhere. Do cards actually gain experience at the positions you play them?

Yes.

[el_gringo]

Originally Posted by drhay53

I am confused by your retraining comments here and elsewhere. Do cards actually gain experience at the positions you play them?

IMO this seems wrong and should be disabled. Unless we're going to get some kind of full-fledged card leveling system or something.

Correct, they do gain experience if they are proficient enough (in terms of raw defensive skill ratings) to play the position.

Player development is generally disabled (except for Live cards updating during the season in OOTP 20 and going forward), except for positional proficiency. Their raw defense doesn't get any better, but a particular card can learn a new position.

To enforce this, you need to use the 'force start' options and/or setting your rosters to ensure they get playing time, or else players with existing experience will be played there instead by the AI.

Also, I believe at present these gained proficiencies are wiped if you move the card off of you active/reserve roster (i.e. disable, auction, etc.). Unsure if that will be the case in future versions or not.

[drhay53]

Originally Posted by el_gringo

Correct, they do gain experience if they are proficient enough (in terms of raw defensive skill ratings) to play the position.

Player development is generally disabled (except for Live cards updating during the season in OOTP 20 and going forward), except for positional proficiency. Their raw defense doesn't get any better, but a particular card can learn a new position.

To enforce this, you need to use the 'force start' options and/or setting your rosters to ensure they get playing time, or else players with existing experience will be played there instead by the AI.

Also, I believe at present these gained proficiencies are wiped if you move the card off of you active/reserve roster (i.e. disable, auction, etc.). Unsure if that will be the case in future versions or not.

I really can't think of any good reason why you would want to allow cards to gain position experience. I really hope the team decides to change this and make the cards static on that front.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by drhay53

I really can't think of any good reason why you would want to allow cards to gain position experience. I really hope the team decides to change this and make the cards static on that front.

In one of the beta versions, I pulled two good shortstops from my starter packs and a third baseman that was really weak. I played one of the shortstops, Travis Jackson, at third. He actually played some third in real life so it was realistic and made my team a lot better.

[Cactusguy21]

Great post, but I do have one question:

Why is everyone referring to high overall cards as being expensive? I feel like people are going to be buying cards in the auction house based on ratings and not overall, I don't see how a high overall makes them more expensive.

[el_gringo]

Originally Posted by Cactusguy21

Great post, but I do have one question:

Why is everyone referring to high overall cards as being expensive? I feel like people are going to be buying cards in the auction house based on ratings and not overall, I don't see how a high overall makes them more expensive.

You're largely right, we're being slightly lazy . It's a combination of rarity and ratings. Cards that are diamond/perfect (in addition to having generally higher ratings, though not always, than Gold and lower), particularly the historical/non-Live ones, will be so rare that people will pay a lot for them even if they have a nearly comparable player just for the exclusivity, so the market prices will still remain pretty high. The less desirable diamond/perfect cards will of course sell for relatively less than the ones with the absolute best rankings of course, and there might even be overlap between the high and low ends of adjacent rarity tiers. Supply and Demand.

[drhay53]

Originally Posted by Orcin

In one of the beta versions, I pulled two good shortstops from my starter packs and a third baseman that was really weak. I played one of the shortstops, Travis Jackson, at third. He actually played some third in real life so it was realistic and made my team a lot better.

Ok, so he should have had a decent 3B rating anyway, you shouldn't have to train him. You should be able to sell one of the good SS and replace him with a decent 3B if you need to.

Does the experience they gain carry over from season to season or is it isolated to the current season?

edit to add: I think OOTP needs to be a little more lenient about where people play. Either by giving people higher ratings at positions, or by not penalizing people so much. We're seeing players play multiple positions a lot in MLB and the penalty doesn't seem nearly as drastic as what OOTP simulates.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by drhay53

Does the experience they gain carry over from season to season or is it isolated to the current season?

At the moment, it does not carry over. However, that is subject to change before release.

[Cactusguy21]

Yeah, I feel like the cards should come with 200 experience at every position, that way you don't have to train them. But I see why they have it the way it is now too.

[drhay53]

Originally Posted by Orcin

At the moment, it does not carry over. However, that is subject to change before release.

I am honestly really puzzled by the current implementation. I really hope they decide to change it to something better (which, I contend, includes disabling it completely).

[nickwatic]

Originally Posted by drhay53

I am confused by your retraining comments here and elsewhere. Do cards actually gain experience at the positions you play them?

IMO this seems wrong and should be disabled. Unless we're going to get some kind of full-fledged card leveling system or something.

I have Rendon and Beltre, transitioned Beltre to first base and that makes sense cause a man old

[sansterre]

In keeping with gringo's theories is the value of reinvestment.

A pack costs 1000.

You should expect:

2.98 Common Cards, sellable for 7-ish PP apiece, worth 21 PP
2.25 Bronze Cards, sellable for 120-ish PP apiece, worth 270 PP
0.625 Silver Cards, sellable for 1000-ish PP apiece, worth 625 PP
0.125 Gold Cards, sellable for 3000-ish PP apiece, worth 375 PP
0.02 Diamond Cards, sellable for 10000-ish PP apiece, worth 100 PP
0.002 Perfect Cards, sellable for . . . honestly no idea.

Well, add that up and you're looking at auction yields of 1391 per pack, 1252 after the rake. So you buy a pack and turn around and sell it. Then you take that money and re-invest it in more packs. After five turnarounds (a week?) you're at about 3076 PP in value from that first pack. And that keeps going the more you do it.

Now obviously I can't say that the economy is going to keep valuing cards the same; I'd guess that bronzes will dry up in value while golds+ will increase as more PP flows into the system. But the point is, as long as the cards you draw don't get fed into your team they keep multiplying in value.

When they go onto your team they do yield some value, sure, but I can't imagine a circumstance where an average pack, put on your active roster, yields more than 2000 PP in a week that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

This is a long theorycrafting way of saying, the longer you put off putting your value onto your roster, the more total PP you gain. It's sort of like tanking to rebuild. Gringo's strategy above is basically a way of trying to get you as many wins/achievements as possible while investing only the minimum in your roster, leaving the rest to multiply for future value.

[riffraffselbow]

If you're averaging 1000PP from your silver cards, or 120 from your bronze, I dunno how you're doing that. Certainly there are some like that but not that many.

[sansterre]

Originally Posted by riffraffselbow

If you're averaging 1000PP from your silver cards, or 120 from your bronze, I dunno how you're doing that. Certainly there are some like that but not that many.

Well, obviously relievers are only about 70% of the above value.

And it varies a lot on where they are on the spectrum. A 70 point silver might only sell for 600-700, but a 79 point silver is usually a 1500+ value.

[riffraffselbow]

Originally Posted by sansterre

Well, obviously relievers are only about 70% of the above value.

And it varies a lot on where they are on the spectrum. A 70 point silver might only sell for 600-700, but a 79 point silver is usually a 1500+ value.

Are there like different regions or something? from what I've seen on the market anyone paying 600-700 for a 70 (at least before you look at the stats, there may be some real beasts rated 70 due to weird stat distribution) is making a strange choice, unless it's maybe a SP or something.