High rated players sign only to be traded

MileHigh84 · 10-09-2018, 11:42 PM

In my current game a highly rated international starting pitcher who was a 27 year old free agent got signed by atlanta. I lost out because his negotiation mood and he refused to speak with me. I then traded for him one week later for an old 33 year old right fielder. Why would ai sign the best free agent SP then deal him for an old washed up RF. I ate 50% of his contract to move him.

Drstrangelove · 10-09-2018, 11:48 PM

It's hard to say without any more information. But here's some possible answers:

1) he wasn't as highly rated by the AI that signed him as you think he should be
2) the AI rates your RF higher that you think he should be
3) trading difficulty is set too low
4) someone's finances
5) elements in the rating settings changing recently

Or something else.

If the player is very young the ratings are liable to change dramatically, in this case, for the worse. There's some element of gambling to this process.

MileHigh84 · 10-09-2018, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drstrangelove

It's hard to say without any more information. But here's some possible answers:

1) he wasn't as highly rated by the AI that signed him as you think he should be
2) the AI rates your RF higher that you think he should be
3) trading difficulty is set too low
4) someone's finances
5) elements in the rating settings changing recently

Or something else.

If the player is very young the ratings are liable to change dramatically, in this case, for the worse. There's some element of gambling to this process.

He is 27 year old SP. The RF was 33 and washed up. I ate 50% of his contract to move him. I guess we'll see if this SP turns out to be a very expensive bust. But at the surface makes no sense. His ratings didnt change that much in 1 week after they signed him.

polydamas · 10-10-2018, 12:01 AM

Other than what has been already mentioned:

What are your Player Evaluation Settings? Maybe your ratings weight is too low.

Perhaps the GM values veterans and gives a lot of weight to stats from 2 years ago.

TGH-Adfabre · 10-10-2018, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MileHigh84

He is 27 year old SP. The RF was 33 and washed up. I ate 50% of his contract to move him. I guess we'll see if this SP turns out to be a very expensive bust. But at the surface makes no sense. His ratings didnt change that much in 1 week after they signed him.

I tend to agree.
Scouting on?
Accuracy?
This could matter a lot. I have seen some crazy discrepancy in scouts with high accuracy.

MileHigh84 · 10-10-2018, 07:42 PM

Scouting and accuracy is default haven't touched it. Its june 4th I checked the guy I traded and hes batting .114. The pitcher has an era of 4.2 but something seems off. I guess my gripe is why did Atlanta sign him to a big deal to trade him 4 days later for a 33 year old in his final year of a contract.

Sharkn20 · 10-10-2018, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MileHigh84

Scouting and accuracy is default haven't touched it. Its june 4th I checked the guy I traded and hes batting .114. The pitcher has an era of 4.2 but something seems off. I guess my gripe is why did Atlanta sign him to a big deal to trade him 4 days later for a 33 year old in his final year of a contract.

Lol that looks like a loss - loss trade

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Clavette · 10-10-2018, 09:37 PM

This happens often

I had something similiar where i couldnt afford to get the top guy. He signed with someone and i was able to trade a mid level prospect and other team was willing to eat roughly half.

I took full advantage of it

Fyrestorm3 · 10-11-2018, 02:41 AM

Quite simply, because the AI is not perfect and cannot think like a human being.

Here's what most likely happens in these kinds of situations: The AI team sees a highly-rated player that it wants to acquire, and does so. But when you come along offering a trade, the AI does not evaluate the recently-signed player any differently than the long-term players they also have. They're all just bits of data. Especially with international prospects, the scouted ratings of the player in question may have changed since he's been on the team. Or perhaps you've offered the team a player of a position that they majorly need. They could also look at it as a chance to dump payroll, if they're not trying to Win Now. And the Trade and AI Eval settings play a huge part in how the computer evaluates the worth of players in trades (which can be much different than in Free Agency).

Basically, the AI (by definition) does not have the ability to reason and think "Well, I've just signed this player to a massive contract; it would be silly to trade him away." It sees the player with the massive contract, and may value him less than the middling player with a manageable contract you're offering in return. Especially with scouting enabled, the ratings you see may not be the ratings the computer sees.

It's impossible for the AI to take all the same factors into consideration that a human would - otherwise it wouldn't be very Artificial. So sometimes, you have to police yourself if you want to maintain realism. If you don't care, then by all means go for it! But if it bothers you, then look into increasing the trading difficulty, or tweaking the Scouting and/or AI Eval settings.

MileHigh84 · 10-11-2018, 01:31 PM

I knew the AI couldnt differentiate between a new free agent signing and a run of the mill player. Maybe for 2020 hardcode the AI not to trade players they recently acuired.

I find it a little cheesy, I'll try and adjust some settings. Thanks

bostonredsox282 · 10-11-2018, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Basically, the AI (by definition) does not have the ability to reason and think "Well, I've just signed this player to a massive contract; it would be silly to trade him away."

Well, it doesn't in this version... maybe in future versions we could see something like a deepened fan reaction engine, giving the AI GMs the ability to reason that those sign and trades might not be so wise for the long term health of their job.

Although, to play devil's advocate for a moment, currently that works also for human players gaining an advantage over AI GMs, as in, signing random talent to acquire on the trade market who they really want. If we changed how fan reaction is affected it would make the strategy less simple.

Either way you knock out an unrealistic scenario as is, however, so I would say go for it.

Fyrestorm3 · 10-15-2018, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostonredsox282

Well, it doesn't in this version... maybe in future versions we could see something like a deepened fan reaction engine, giving the AI GMs the ability to reason that those sign and trades might not be so wise for the long term health of their job.

Although, to play devil's advocate for a moment, currently that works also for human players gaining an advantage over AI GMs, as in, signing random talent to acquire on the trade market who they really want. If we changed how fan reaction is affected it would make the strategy less simple.

Either way you knock out an unrealistic scenario as is, however, so I would say go for it.

Oh definitely, this is an area the game could definitely be upgraded in, and I would love to see it. Really just trying to point out that this isn't an inexplicable phenomenon; rather it's a limitation of the game engine as it currently stands - in the same way that the AI in any shooter can't always perfectly react to everything the player does.

drewandpedey · 10-15-2018, 08:45 PM

is it a scouting rating issue?

Cactusguy21 · 10-15-2018, 09:06 PM

Wouldn't it be something as simple as not allowing the AI to trade players that it's given X contract to until two months into the season?

bostonredsox282 · 10-17-2018, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewandpedey

is it a scouting rating issue?

That's an interesting idea, and possible in that you might see organizationally the issue come from another area. If that were true, wouldn't we also have this issue with players that were recently traded? I haven't seen that problem.

r0nster · 10-17-2018, 10:21 PM

has happened in real life and I have done it in this game too over the years. Doesn't happen too often in real life but occasionally it will occur.
People forget the most famous occurance of this is Mike Pizza Trade from Dodgers to Marlins then a few days later off to Mets

Ultimate question is how often is it happening in your game each season ???

Jamee999 · 10-18-2018, 12:27 AM

I was under the impression that MLB clubs weren't allowed to trade newly signed FAs until a certain point in the season.

bwburke94 · 10-20-2018, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamee999

I was under the impression that MLB clubs weren't allowed to trade newly signed FAs until a certain point in the season.

That is correct. I know the rule used to be May 1, but I believe the current CBA moved it to June 1?

10-09-2018, 11:42 PM	#1
MileHigh84 Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 12	High rated players sign only to be traded In my current game a highly rated international starting pitcher who was a 27 year old free agent got signed by atlanta. I lost out because his negotiation mood and he refused to speak with me. I then traded for him one week later for an old 33 year old right fielder. Why would ai sign the best free agent SP then deal him for an old washed up RF. I ate 50% of his contract to move him. Last edited by MileHigh84; 10-10-2018 at 12:00 AM.

10-09-2018, 11:48 PM	#2
Drstrangelove Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 346	It's hard to say without any more information. But here's some possible answers: 1) he wasn't as highly rated by the AI that signed him as you think he should be 2) the AI rates your RF higher that you think he should be 3) trading difficulty is set too low 4) someone's finances 5) elements in the rating settings changing recently Or something else. If the player is very young the ratings are liable to change dramatically, in this case, for the worse. There's some element of gambling to this process. Last edited by Drstrangelove; 10-09-2018 at 11:51 PM.

10-11-2018, 02:41 AM	#9
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	Quite simply, because the AI is not perfect and cannot think like a human being. Here's what most likely happens in these kinds of situations: The AI team sees a highly-rated player that it wants to acquire, and does so. But when you come along offering a trade, the AI does not evaluate the recently-signed player any differently than the long-term players they also have. They're all just bits of data. Especially with international prospects, the scouted ratings of the player in question may have changed since he's been on the team. Or perhaps you've offered the team a player of a position that they majorly need. They could also look at it as a chance to dump payroll, if they're not trying to Win Now. And the Trade and AI Eval settings play a huge part in how the computer evaluates the worth of players in trades (which can be much different than in Free Agency). Basically, the AI (by definition) does not have the ability to reason and think "Well, I've just signed this player to a massive contract; it would be silly to trade him away." It sees the player with the massive contract, and may value him less than the middling player with a manageable contract you're offering in return. Especially with scouting enabled, the ratings you see may not be the ratings the computer sees. It's impossible for the AI to take all the same factors into consideration that a human would - otherwise it wouldn't be very Artificial. So sometimes, you have to police yourself if you want to maintain realism. If you don't care, then by all means go for it! But if it bothers you, then look into increasing the trading difficulty, or tweaking the Scouting and/or AI Eval settings. __________________ Jersey Template (Photoshop) \| Cap Template (Photoshop) Last edited by Fyrestorm3; 10-11-2018 at 02:43 AM.

10-18-2018, 12:27 AM	#17
Jamee999 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 772	I was under the impression that MLB clubs weren't allowed to trade newly signed FAs until a certain point in the season. Last edited by Jamee999; 10-18-2018 at 12:46 AM.

10-10-2018, 12:01 AM	#4
polydamas All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 599	Other than what has been already mentioned: What are your Player Evaluation Settings? Maybe your ratings weight is too low. Perhaps the GM values veterans and gives a lot of weight to stats from 2 years ago.

10-10-2018, 07:42 PM	#6
MileHigh84 Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 12	Scouting and accuracy is default haven't touched it. Its june 4th I checked the guy I traded and hes batting .114. The pitcher has an era of 4.2 but something seems off. I guess my gripe is why did Atlanta sign him to a big deal to trade him 4 days later for a 33 year old in his final year of a contract.

10-10-2018, 09:37 PM	#8
Clavette Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Connecticut Posts: 371	This happens often I had something similiar where i couldnt afford to get the top guy. He signed with someone and i was able to trade a mid level prospect and other team was willing to eat roughly half. I took full advantage of it

10-11-2018, 01:31 PM	#10
MileHigh84 Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 12	I knew the AI couldnt differentiate between a new free agent signing and a run of the mill player. Maybe for 2020 hardcode the AI not to trade players they recently acuired. I find it a little cheesy, I'll try and adjust some settings. Thanks

10-15-2018, 08:45 PM	#13
drewandpedey Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2018 Location: Boston Posts: 161	is it a scouting rating issue?

10-15-2018, 09:06 PM	#14
Cactusguy21 Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 332	Wouldn't it be something as simple as not allowing the AI to trade players that it's given X contract to until two months into the season?

10-17-2018, 10:21 PM	#16
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,053	has happened in real life and I have done it in this game too over the years. Doesn't happen too often in real life but occasionally it will occur. People forget the most famous occurance of this is Mike Pizza Trade from Dodgers to Marlins then a few days later off to Mets Ultimate question is how often is it happening in your game each season ???