Some results demand a better explanation

Dyzalot · 10-06-2018, 07:15 PM

When "one in a million" plays happen, the pbp should really make note of it with some kind of explanation. I'm watching a game in the MLB standard QS I started. The team has runners on 1st & 3rd with no outs. The score is 5-1. Batter hits a grounder to the pitcher which results in a 1-6-3 double play, with the runner holding on 3rd. I've never seen that happen in over 40 years of watching real MLB. I can imagine some ways it could happen. I just don't think I should be the one having to imagine the batter tripping and falling down coming out of the batter's box or the runner on third being blinded momentarily by a laser pointer aimed from the stands or whatever other fantastic scenario I can think of. Please in the future make it a point to provide appropriate pbp dialogue to explain some of these extremely rare plays when they actually do happen.

Toast · 10-07-2018, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

When "one in a million" plays happen, the pbp should really make note of it with some kind of explanation. I'm watching a game in the MLB standard QS I started. The team has runners on 1st & 3rd with no outs. The score is 5-1. Batter hits a grounder to the pitcher which results in a 1-6-3 double play, with the runner holding on 3rd. I've never seen that happen in over 40 years of watching real MLB. I can imagine some ways it could happen. I just don't think I should be the one having to imagine the batter tripping and falling down coming out of the batter's box or the runner on third being blinded momentarily by a laser pointer aimed from the stands or whatever other fantastic scenario I can think of. Please in the future make it a point to provide appropriate pbp dialogue to explain some of these extremely rare plays when they actually do happen.

Well it is possible the pitcher looked off the runner at third before throwing to 2nd base for the first out of the double play. I guess it depends where the ball was hit on the in-field? Still a description as such would be nice.

Thanatoast

If you question they will come from the novel "Field of Screams"

Dyzalot · 10-07-2018, 02:00 AM

You'd have to look him off twice. If you don't look him off before throwing to first, he'll score. There's a reason this never happens in real life.

ohiodevil · 10-07-2018, 09:29 AM

What was the speed of the runner on 3rd? If it were someone that runs as well as Cecil Fielder did, then there is no way he would attempt to go home on a play like that....you also said the score was 5 to 1, who was winning? What inning was it? Was it the team batting? Where in the lineup were they? Did they have a good hitter coming up? I have seen runners stay on 3rd if their team was up or when it was early in the game....remember the rule, you never make the 3rd out at the plate. But yes, a better description would be nice....but never say things don't ever happen in baseball...because it probably has.

DCG12 · 10-07-2018, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

What was the speed of the runner on 3rd? If it were someone that runs as well as Cecil Fielder did, then there is no way he would attempt to go home on a play like that....you also said the score was 5 to 1, who was winning? What inning was it? Was it the team batting? Where in the lineup were they? Did they have a good hitter coming up? I have seen runners stay on 3rd if their team was up or when it was early in the game....remember the rule, you never make the 3rd out at the plate. But yes, a better description would be nice....but never say things don't ever happen in baseball...because it probably has.

You make some good points but he did say that there were no outs the 3rd out at home doesn't apply.

The runner from 3rd should go winning or losing. Force them to make the tag play at home and end up with 1st and 2nd 1 out instead of runner at 3rd 2 outs.

Bluenoser · 10-07-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

What was the speed of the runner on 3rd? If it were someone that runs as well as Cecil Fielder did, then there is no way he would attempt to go home on a play like that....you also said the score was 5 to 1, who was winning? What inning was it? Was it the team batting? Where in the lineup were they? Did they have a good hitter coming up? I have seen runners stay on 3rd if their team was up or when it was early in the game....remember the rule, you never make the 3rd out at the plate. But yes, a better description would be nice....but never say things don't ever happen in baseball...because it probably has.

This... plenty of reasons why the runner doesn't go. Need more clarity on the entire situation.

ohiodevil · 10-07-2018, 10:34 AM

Quote:

You make some good points but he did say that there were no outs the 3rd out at home doesn't apply. The runner from 3rd should go winning or losing. Force them to make the tag play at home and end up with 1st and 2nd 1 out instead of runner at 3rd 2 outs.

If you have a (very) slow runner on 3rd and they turn the double play, then there definitely is the chance it can turn into a triple play...hence the 3rd out at home. I am not arguing what the runner should do, but things like this have happened in baseball....there are a lot of variables in play during all plays in a game, so I definitely agree with that maybe there could be more detail in the pbp. But to say things "never happen" during a baseball game is incorrect.

DCG12 · 10-07-2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

If you have a (very) slow runner on 3rd and they turn the double play, then there definitely is the chance it can turn into a triple play...hence the 3rd out at home. I am not arguing what the runner should do, but things like this have happened in baseball....there are a lot of variables in play during all plays in a game, so I definitely agree with that maybe there could be more detail in the pbp. But to say things "never happen" during a baseball game is incorrect.

The speed of the runner on 3rd makes little difference because its not a force play, they have to tag him, so worst case he gets in a rundown. The speed of the batter and runner on 1st make more difference as they need to get to their bases before the out is made at home. I do agree you should never say it doesn't happen because it probably has or will as soon as you say that.

Edit: in re-reading your post I realize you're saying they could turn the DP and then throw home. That scenario is truly the 1 in a million that I would take a chance on. Even the slowest of slow catchers should beat that sort of play as they are starting with a lead off 3rd

ohiodevil · 10-07-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCG12

The speed of the runner on 3rd makes little difference because its not a force play, they have to tag him, so worst case he gets in a rundown. The speed of the batter and runner on 1st make more difference as they need to get to their bases before the out is made at home. I do agree you should never say it doesn't happen because it probably has or will as soon as you say that.

Edit: in re-reading your post I realize you're saying they could turn the DP and then throw home. That scenario is truly the 1 in a million that I would take a chance on. Even the slowest of slow catchers should beat that sort of play as they are starting with a lead off 3rd

Oh yeah, the odds are slim they could turn that play, but if the ball is hit very hard to the pitcher and he snags it, then turning that play is not as impossible as it sounds....everything would have to bounce the right way for the defense, but it can happen. But going back to the OP, I think we all can agree that more detail in the pbp could be a good thing.

r0nster · 10-07-2018, 11:49 AM

In my view it really doesn't matter when its a DP the runner wouldn't score anyways. However when it isn't a DP as batter makes it to first safely then the runner will run. At least that's what I have seen. I do understand what the OP is saying and could say that's valid. We all could poke holes but lets just enjoy the game

RchW · 10-07-2018, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

Oh yeah, the odds are slim they could turn that play, but if the ball is hit very hard to the pitcher and he snags it, then turning that play is not as impossible as it sounds....everything would have to bounce the right way for the defense, but it can happen. But going back to the OP, I think we all can agree that more detail in the pbp could be a good thing.

My operating assumption is that the GB to the pitcher looked like a catch, freezing the runner at 3B. This would be enough to have no run score. I can also think of many players IRL that run poorly enough and/or have poor baserunning skills that would not score unless told to go on contact. Does the in game menu allow you to sent the runner at 3B independent of the runner at 1B? If so then sending the runner at 3B = "go on contact" and the run scores independent of the actual play outcome. IRL I would think that " go on contact" would have to be on (ie a proactive choice) for the run to score every time.

Dyzalot · 10-07-2018, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

This... plenty of reasons why the runner doesn't go. Need more clarity on the entire situation.

More clarity? LOL this never happens in real MLB but there's "plenty of reasons"? OK. Name one scenario where you have seen this play out in real life.

Dyzalot · 10-07-2018, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

If you have a (very) slow runner on 3rd and they turn the double play, then there definitely is the chance it can turn into a triple play...hence the 3rd out at home. I am not arguing what the runner should do, but things like this have happened in baseball....there are a lot of variables in play during all plays in a game, so I definitely agree with that maybe there could be more detail in the pbp. But to say things "never happen" during a baseball game is incorrect.

It is not incorrect to say that I have never seen a double play groundball executed where a runner is held at third in my 40+ years of watching MLB baseball. Feel free to point out a situation where this happened. Good luck!

Dyzalot · 10-07-2018, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

Oh yeah, the odds are slim they could turn that play, but if the ball is hit very hard to the pitcher and he snags it, then turning that play is not as impossible as it sounds....everything would have to bounce the right way for the defense, but it can happen. But going back to the OP, I think we all can agree that more detail in the pbp could be a good thing.

It has never happened in the history of baseball but sure, it could happen...

Dyzalot · 10-07-2018, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0nster

In my view it really doesn't matter when its a DP the runner wouldn't score anyways. However when it isn't a DP as batter makes it to first safely then the runner will run. At least that's what I have seen. I do understand what the OP is saying and could say that's valid. We all could poke holes but lets just enjoy the game

With zero outs the runner scores with a dp or no dp. And I will always poke holes when the game gives unrealistic outcomes.

Dyzalot · 10-07-2018, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

My operating assumption is that the GB to the pitcher looked like a catch, freezing the runner at 3B. This would be enough to have no run score. I can also think of many players IRL that run poorly enough and/or have poor baserunning skills that would not score unless told to go on contact. Does the in game menu allow you to sent the runner at 3B independent of the runner at 1B? If so then sending the runner at 3B = "go on contact" and the run scores independent of the actual play outcome. IRL I would think that " go on contact" would have to be on (ie a proactive choice) for the run to score every time.

"Go on contact" is what every MLB player is taught when on 3rd, there are less than two outs and there is also a runner on 1st/ MLB managers would rather force thew defense to play the runner going home than to tuurn the double play. This is whyt the runner on third, no matter how slow, always goes. It is about as standard a play as you can get.

Now, if it was something weird like a dropped line drive or a runner fell over shoelaces or a goat ran on the field, preventing the guy on third from scoring, then I'd be fine with it as long as it was explained in PBP since that would never go unexplained in a real MLB game.

Le Grande Orange · 10-07-2018, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

More clarity? LOL this never happens in real MLB but there's "plenty of reasons"? OK. Name one scenario where you have seen this play out in real life.

As I understand it, OOTP's play results are based on Retrosheet's play-by-play data. Which would mean it has happened in real life. One could, of course, check this by running some examinations of Retrosheet's play-by-play (event) data files (which cover 1921-2017). See here for more.

Dyzalot · 10-07-2018, 10:02 PM

When I say "this doesn't happen in real life" in reference to OOTP, what I'm really saying is that if this did happen, it would be commented on immediately by the announcers and debated endlessly for the next week on every sports talk show. This is rarer than a baserunner scoring from first on a single. I expect that this is more rare than a triple play. It is in the statistical area of "virtually impossible" and thus really should have a better explanation of how the play resulted as it did.

Craig Scarborough · 10-07-2018, 10:17 PM

I get that - there probably should be some "holy cow!" moment in the commentary.

That being said - a quick look at baseball-reference.com shows a 1-6-3 DP with the runner staying at 3rd happened as recently as 2016 (a 1-4-3 occurred as recently as 6 days ago!)

Overall, it seems the specific 1-6-3 occurs every few years. I agree it's something that should be highlighted in the text.

NoOne · 10-08-2018, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

"Go on contact" is what every MLB player is taught when on 3rd, there are less than two outs and there is also a runner on 1st/ MLB managers would rather force thew defense to play the runner going home than to tuurn the double play. This is whyt the runner on third, no matter how slow, always goes. It is about as standard a play as you can get.

Now, if it was something weird like a dropped line drive or a runner fell over shoelaces or a goat ran on the field, preventing the guy on third from scoring, then I'd be fine with it as long as it was explained in PBP since that would never go unexplained in a real MLB game.

i think where the ball is going is important... on the ground or not too, with less than two outs. i'm sick of dummies taking off on contact without looking then being thown out... i see a lot of bad baserunning in detroit for the last.. 3 decades or more, lol.

definitely not going on a grounder to the left side of field unless some severe shift is on. even to the right, it can't be a laser.

10-06-2018, 07:15 PM	#1
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	Some results demand a better explanation When "one in a million" plays happen, the pbp should really make note of it with some kind of explanation. I'm watching a game in the MLB standard QS I started. The team has runners on 1st & 3rd with no outs. The score is 5-1. Batter hits a grounder to the pitcher which results in a 1-6-3 double play, with the runner holding on 3rd. I've never seen that happen in over 40 years of watching real MLB. I can imagine some ways it could happen. I just don't think I should be the one having to imagine the batter tripping and falling down coming out of the batter's box or the runner on third being blinded momentarily by a laser pointer aimed from the stands or whatever other fantastic scenario I can think of. Please in the future make it a point to provide appropriate pbp dialogue to explain some of these extremely rare plays when they actually do happen.

10-07-2018, 02:00 AM	#3
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	You'd have to look him off twice. If you don't look him off before throwing to first, he'll score. There's a reason this never happens in real life.

10-07-2018, 09:29 AM	#4
ohiodevil OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Rocky River, Ohio Posts: 2,416	What was the speed of the runner on 3rd? If it were someone that runs as well as Cecil Fielder did, then there is no way he would attempt to go home on a play like that....you also said the score was 5 to 1, who was winning? What inning was it? Was it the team batting? Where in the lineup were they? Did they have a good hitter coming up? I have seen runners stay on 3rd if their team was up or when it was early in the game....remember the rule, you never make the 3rd out at the plate. But yes, a better description would be nice....but never say things don't ever happen in baseball...because it probably has.

10-07-2018, 11:49 AM	#10
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,037	In my view it really doesn't matter when its a DP the runner wouldn't score anyways. However when it isn't a DP as batter makes it to first safely then the runner will run. At least that's what I have seen. I do understand what the OP is saying and could say that's valid. We all could poke holes but lets just enjoy the game

10-07-2018, 10:02 PM	#18
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	When I say "this doesn't happen in real life" in reference to OOTP, what I'm really saying is that if this did happen, it would be commented on immediately by the announcers and debated endlessly for the next week on every sports talk show. This is rarer than a baserunner scoring from first on a single. I expect that this is more rare than a triple play. It is in the statistical area of "virtually impossible" and thus really should have a better explanation of how the play resulted as it did.

10-07-2018, 10:17 PM	#19
Craig Scarborough All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 551	I get that - there probably should be some "holy cow!" moment in the commentary. That being said - a quick look at baseball-reference.com shows a 1-6-3 DP with the runner staying at 3rd happened as recently as 2016 (a 1-4-3 occurred as recently as 6 days ago!) Overall, it seems the specific 1-6-3 occurs every few years. I agree it's something that should be highlighted in the text.