Minors overflowing with veterans

[gosensgo101]

In an MLB quickstart game, inevitably veterans flood AAA, AA and even A+. You can implement age limits, but that just causes most of your 40-man guys to get pushed to AA and A+ as the older minor leaguers fill out AAA and AA. Anyone have a solution to this?

[NoOne]

age limit at AAA? 30-32ish?

i'd use "25" or "26" for AA. 24 for "A" but if oyu use anything below that start using service time as the main "rail" for Short A and Rookie leagues. it gets dicey trying to use age limits at low levels, you are certain to cause a bottleneck without care.

i'd avoid service time AND age limits in general... keep it as simple as possible. it's about development. so, age is key at AA, not service time. you don't want a bunch of ~26 year olds eating up bench spots at AA.. by 26 they don't develop much more and less frequently meet potential at that point.

if after that you still see too many oldies but goodies in minors, you may have to create a forgiving filter and then release players en masse with comissioner mode on.

i have similar rules. i see ~5-6players near age max at A/AA, give or take. a few more at AAA on AI-controlled teams. half a AAA team should be mlb-depth anyway. in real life, real prospects don't typically spend a ton of time at AAA, a few may, but more often due to what's clogging their way or to steal a year of club control..

if you think there are just too many players, look into reducing draft rounds... do this very carefully... use a restored backup "test.lg". then zoom out afer any change you make... sim out upto ~10 years if major overhaul of entire mil system compared to previous rules used. if only concerned about effects on "rookie" level, you may only need ~2-3 years simmed to see the results.

always find the lowest or worst case scenario in league.. make sure it's still sufficient... and if close you better zoom out some more and spot check a few more times.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by NoOne

age limit at AAA? 30-32ish?

i'd use "25" or "26" for AA. 24 for "A" but if oyu use anything below that start using service time as the main "rail" for Short A and Rookie leagues. it gets dicey trying to use age limits at low levels, you are certain to cause a bottleneck without care.

i'd avoid service time AND age limits in general... keep it as simple as possible. it's about development. so, age is key at AA, not service time. you don't want a bunch of ~26 year olds eating up bench spots at AA.. by 26 they don't develop much more and less frequently meet potential at that point.

if after that you still see too many oldies but goodies in minors, you may have to create a forgiving filter and then release players en masse with comissioner mode on.

i have similar rules. i see ~5-6players near age max at A/AA, give or take. a few more at AAA on AI-controlled teams. half a AAA team should be mlb-depth anyway. in real life, real prospects don't typically spend a ton of time at AAA, a few may, but more often due to what's clogging their way or to steal a year of club control..

if you think there are just too many players, look into reducing draft rounds... do this very carefully... use a restored backup "test.lg". then zoom out afer any change you make... sim out upto ~10 years if major overhaul of entire mil system compared to previous rules used. if only concerned about effects on "rookie" level, you may only need ~2-3 years simmed to see the results.

always find the lowest or worst case scenario in league.. make sure it's still sufficient... and if close you better zoom out some more and spot check a few more times.

What would you think about rookie league service time of 2 (3 for dominican league) and 6/7 for all other minors except for AAA which would be nothing?

Also, what about 25 roster limits for AAA and AA, but no limit for all others?

[PSUColonel]

I have this:


AAA: 25 man roster, no service limits
AA: 25 man roster, no service limits
A+: 25 man roster, 5 year service limit
A: 25 man roster, 4 year service limit
A-: 35 man roster, 3 year service limit
R (GCL, AZL) 35 man roster, 2 year service limit
R (DSL) 35 man roster, 3 year service limit


This reflects reality as best as possible given the limited roster rules which can be used within OOTP. In reality, A+ & A have 35 man rosters with only 25 active at any given time, but this cannot be reflected in OOTP.

I am also using CURRENT ratings to setup minor league depth charts. While I can appreciate why people might prefer POTENTIAL, too often you have players who are undesrving of certain roles (ie..hitting in the number 4 spot when they shouldn't, or a pitcher being a closer when he shouldn't be) but they will still play more than likely, and will be in better roles. If a player isn't playing at a given level, he is likely overmatched anyway. I assume people think using POTENTIAL ratings give the AI a boost, but I'm not really so sure, as players are promoted/demoted based on CURRENT ratings and performance, not POTENTIAL.

[NoOne]

the rules will work fine as long as you provide enough players relative to those rules.

how many rookie leagues do you have? how many rounds do you have in draft? does the math add up? that's rhetorical.. just make sure you have enough every year for ~30per extra rookie team and ~35 for the lowest league. (35 + 30x -- x = # of rounds)

service time limits -- if it says "2" it means 3 playable years.

roster limits -- do not place them at rookie and if oyu do never below ~35.. that is stated in the manual, not just an opinion.

my opinion -- avoid roster limits.. keep it as simple as possible.

having 6/7 for all leagues is okay, maybe.. .you'd have to test. i don't think it would work as you expect though.

8 years plus 18 is 26... but, what about he guys that come over at 16 or 17 on occasion.. they will be chopped at ~24/25 which may be too young? still some glimmer of hope at 24, anyway... less so at 25 but still possible for development.

age will intuitively work better at higher levels. service time works better at lower levels. you don't have to use both at any level, but maybe it helps?

e.g. i'll use "1" at rookie to allow 2 years. i may also put an age limit on 1 of those rookie leagues as "20" in an attempt to have a hs/college rookie league (not a good idea, not keeping it simple!)... but i definitely need a rookie league that takes college aged players from draft for a couple years... i couldn't use "22" on both my rookie leagues and have a good result. it would cause significant portions of older draftees up a level and their ability wouldn't be matching.

keep it simple.

see psu colonel's suggestion? it's forgiving. it is not likely to cause bottlenecks, that i can see... he's probably used it for many years without problem too.. any "too few players" errors? i would assume he's adjusted to avoid those.

4 yrs at dsl, 3 years allowed at other 2 rookei leagues.... 3.33 years average * # of draft rounds = enough to fill those teams.

my thing about his is AA... i don't want mlb depth or older non-developing aged prospects in AA... if it's only 5 or 6, no big deal.

i also switch to age limits by A-ball. too much deviation in the "starting" age of a player. 16-24? even if 17-23 that's upto 7 years difference (6yrs 364days)... you can see why service time can be a problem. great for rookie leagues, bad for most leagues after that point, unless very forgiving to cover HS-age, IAFA-age and college aged prospects. short A i may use a service time limit AND age limit.. but i don't do that at any other level. age limit at a/aa will take care of it by itself.

[Cryomaniac]

Only tangetially related, but I kind of like the idea of having an independent "veterans league", with a lower age limit of, say, 30. Maybe that would snag some of the type of players the OP is talking about. I don't know how well the AI handles that kind of league though.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by NoOne

the rules will work fine as long as you provide enough players relative to those rules.

how many rookie leagues do you have? how many rounds do you have in draft? does the math add up? that's rhetorical.. just make sure you have enough every year for ~30per extra rookie team and ~35 for the lowest league. (35 + 30x -- x = # of rounds)

service time limits -- if it says "2" it means 3 playable years.

roster limits -- do not place them at rookie and if oyu do never below ~35.. that is stated in the manual, not just an opinion.

my opinion -- avoid roster limits.. keep it as simple as possible.

having 6/7 for all leagues is okay, maybe.. .you'd have to test. i don't think it would work as you expect though.

8 years plus 18 is 26... but, what about he guys that come over at 16 or 17 on occasion.. they will be chopped at ~24/25 which may be too young? still some glimmer of hope at 24, anyway... less so at 25 but still possible for development.

age will intuitively work better at higher levels. service time works better at lower levels. you don't have to use both at any level, but maybe it helps?

e.g. i'll use "1" at rookie to allow 2 years. i may also put an age limit on 1 of those rookie leagues as "20" in an attempt to have a hs/college rookie league (not a good idea, not keeping it simple!)... but i definitely need a rookie league that takes college aged players from draft for a couple years... i couldn't use "22" on both my rookie leagues and have a good result. it would cause significant portions of older draftees up a level and their ability wouldn't be matching.

keep it simple.

see psu colonel's suggestion? it's forgiving. it is not likely to cause bottlenecks, that i can see... he's probably used it for many years without problem too.. any "too few players" errors? i would assume he's adjusted to avoid those.

4 yrs at dsl, 3 years allowed at other 2 rookei leagues.... 3.33 years average * # of draft rounds = enough to fill those teams.

my thing about his is AA... i don't want mlb depth or older non-developing aged prospects in AA... if it's only 5 or 6, no big deal.

i also switch to age limits by A-ball. too much deviation in the "starting" age of a player. 16-24? even if 17-23 that's upto 7 years difference (6yrs 364days)... you can see why service time can be a problem. great for rookie leagues, bad for most leagues after that point, unless very forgiving to cover HS-age, IAFA-age and college aged prospects. short A i may use a service time limit AND age limit.. but i don't do that at any other level. age limit at a/aa will take care of it by itself.

The service limits seem to work ok...but I was unaware that 5 years means 6 playable years. The actual rules state “no more than 5 years....so you are saying if I wanted to replicate that, it would need to be 4 years instead of 5?


I have a 40 round draft, and generate players for 41 rounds...I am hoping that’s enough, but I am not sure to be honest.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The service limits seem to work ok...but I was unaware that 5 years means 6 playable years. The actual rules state “no more than 5 years....so you are saying if I wanted to replicate that, it would need to be 4 years instead of 5?


I have a 40 round draft, and generate players for 41 rounds...I am hoping that’s enough, but I am not sure to be honest.

Yes, service limits work. Sometimes it takes a little trial and error to get them to work, but I have an MLB league that's been running for many seasons with roster and age limits with zero problems.

In most instances in OOTP, a service limit of x years will end up being x+1. That's because if a player starts the season with x years of service, the game considers that OK even though he's actually entering his x+1 year of service. Does that make sense?

I would suggest going to as many as 45 rounds for your draft. You want to have enough undrafted (i.e. young) free agents for teams to sign when minor league teams start suffering injuries. If you don't, then teams will sign older players, attempt to assign them to lower-level minor league teams, but won't be able to because of service and age limits. So they end up signing the guy and releasing him on the same day, and this happens over and over and over until the problem is fixed manually. Adding rounds to the draft helps to create plenty of undrafted free agents who can be signed midseason. If you only have one extra round of players and some of them are high schoolers who go to college rather than becoming undrafted free agents, your league will quickly run out of young free agents needed for the reason I just explained.

[Cactusguy21]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Only tangetially related, but I kind of like the idea of having an independent "veterans league", with a lower age limit of, say, 30. Maybe that would snag some of the type of players the OP is talking about. I don't know how well the AI handles that kind of league though.

That's a good idea, I wonder if there's a way to do that.

[PSUColonel]

I don’t have any age limits on the minor leagues...just service time limits...do you still feel 45 roofing’s would be needed given the lack of age limits?

Would it be feasible to generate for 45 rounds and still have a 40 round draft?

I am hesitant about expanding to generate for 45 rounds because of talent inflation....but if it is necessary, I’d bite the bullet.

[TGH-Adfabre]

I retire FAs every offseason. I will filter by age and ability until I find 25-33% of the available FAs then force them to retire. Only if they are 20/20 or half star players. It keeps the age in the league younger. It seems to work for me.

[itsmb8]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I have this:


AAA: 25 man roster, no service limits
AA: 25 man roster, no service limits
A+: 25 man roster, 5 year service limit
A: 25 man roster, 4 year service limit
A-: 35 man roster, 3 year service limit
R (GCL, AZL) 35 man roster, 2 year service limit
R (DSL) 35 man roster, 3 year service limit


This reflects reality as best as possible given the limited roster rules which can be used within OOTP. In reality, A+ & A have 35 man rosters with only 25 active at any given time, but this cannot be reflected in OOTP.

I am also using CURRENT ratings to setup minor league depth charts. While I can appreciate why people might prefer POTENTIAL, too often you have players who are undesrving of certain roles (ie..hitting in the number 4 spot when they shouldn't, or a pitcher being a closer when he shouldn't be) but they will still play more than likely, and will be in better roles. If a player isn't playing at a given level, he is likely overmatched anyway. I assume people think using POTENTIAL ratings give the AI a boost, but I'm not really so sure, as players are promoted/demoted based on CURRENT ratings and performance, not POTENTIAL.

Great point about current over potential. Especially because theres always the option to force start someone.

[gosensgo101]

I don't love putting an age limit on Triple-A but it might be the best solution without having to go around the league and manually release or retire older players. I'd love to be able to set maybe a max of x # of veterans older than age n (say, 30 or older) at Triple-A, like the foreign player limits work.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Cactusguy21

That's a good idea, I wonder if there's a way to do that.

You can do it, it's just a matter of how well the AI of the independent league teams would handle it.

[Clavette]

How do you add age or service limits to minor leagues? I typically do it all manually

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The service limits seem to work ok...but I was unaware that 5 years means 6 playable years. The actual rules state “no more than 5 years....so you are saying if I wanted to replicate that, it would need to be 4 years instead of 5?


I have a 40 round draft, and generate players for 41 rounds...I am hoping that’s enough, but I am not sure to be honest.

it's because of how years accumulate... if you have 5 years and 170days.. that's "5" years on the player profile. once they accumulate "6" then, they cannot play there. 5 is not >= 5. they don't count days.

i think you'll be fine by eyeballing it...

3.33 * 40 = ~133/3 = plenty for all 3 rookie teams relative to years allowed. that should provide enough that the players that do not need to adhere to rules can freely move upward without anything pulling them back down.

(excludes the normal decision process which is not perfect -- as any human would be imperfect and rightfully made that way -- some players still are miscouted etc and the ai or human has no idea what it has)

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Only tangetially related, but I kind of like the idea of having an independent "veterans league", with a lower age limit of, say, 30. Maybe that would snag some of the type of players the OP is talking about. I don't know how well the AI handles that kind of league though.

i am sure someone else has done just that in a posted thread... this year, last year? no idea, lol.

although i guess it's the oppposite.. i think it was an age minimum? an effort to use up some veteran FA to avoid them clogging up AAA etc.. . i guess it's similar but a bit different but could give you a better starting step, if read.

worth the google. might save some effort.

i would suggest that this is not KISS principle and would require a bit of testing to ensure no negative ramifications to your mlb.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Clavette

How do you add age or service limits to minor leagues? I typically do it all manually

league settings -> options... then, click the league selector dropdown box for your intended MiL selection.

some settings are different for the mils and some are just missing. you may want to look at other settings you may hav emissed under 'options' or players etc.. stats and ai has some things of interest too for MiL rosters. that's where you can add an arm to the bullpen or use 6 sp rotation as default for that league etc...

one setting in particular of note.. base depth charts on "ability" or "potential" is there somewhere... believe default is based on potential, but could be wrong. i prefer that setting.. if a player has a higher potential, they will start. typically a good thing for development.. maybe not the best for mil wins.. but who counts minor league wins? my concern is that the higher potential guys get playing time.. they are the ones that can actually play in the MLB and the only MiL players that matter.. the rest are trash (video game, not real life.. pixels can be trash wihtout hurting anyone's feelings i hope).

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by gosensgo101

I don't love putting an age limit on Triple-A but it might be the best solution without having to go around the league and manually release or retire older players. I'd love to be able to set maybe a max of x # of veterans older than age n (say, 30 or older) at Triple-A, like the foreign player limits work.

i use 31 and it works well. i also started using a 34 roster size max at AAA... i clearly am not a fan of roster limits, but at AAA it seems to help more than it hurts... when i looked at all 30 team's mil systems, very few had fewer than 34 players at AAA... otherwise it would have had a bad effect. that # was choosen based on what i saw.. i didn't want ~half the league scrounging the FA market to fillup their aaa team or worse pull crappy players form below.

so, it really depends on all the other factors and rules you have in place whther it's a good idea or not.

i feel more comfortable when an AI cuts players at AAA with many years of pro service and fairly accurate ratings than a roster limit anywhere below that. that's the main source of negative effect related to roster limits as well as pulling or pushing players to a level they don't belong and artificially hiding the real problem of too few players available.

i have thought a system of rules worked well before... it never gave me an error or stopped simulations.. .but it was not working well nonetheless, once i looked over each and every mil sytstem at multiple snapshots in time to evaluate what was going on. i could see a tone of players with high potential stuck down in S-A... then promoted to mlb or worse stay at the lower levels for multiple years even though they are nearly fully developed. it was a disturbingly common sight.

that's why on my newer iterations i am trying fewer more basic rules.

svc time for rookie
just age for S-A through AAA

i currently use both svc time and age for sa throgh aa, but i'm starting to think the svc time qualification isn't very useful after rookie or SA. my current system is very much like psucolonels and you can probably find roughyl what i use in previous posts... but my suggestion would be to make it simpler than anything i've ever posted. i jsut haven't tested those out yet.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I don’t have any age limits on the minor leagues...just service time limits...do you still feel 45 roofing’s would be needed given the lack of age limits?

Would it be feasible to generate for 45 rounds and still have a 40 round draft?

I am hesitant about expanding to generate for 45 rounds because of talent inflation....but if it is necessary, I’d bite the bullet.

Service time limits hinder rosters much more than age limits. I use age limits just to keep 23-year-old draftees from becoming 25-year-olds at low A or players signed from independent leagues from being assigned to the low minors.

Yes, 45 rounds should work. It will not increase the amount of top-end talent in the draft in any significant way.