The Bottom of the 9th and the AI

Silfir · 09-25-2018, 05:11 PM

I'm sure the engine accounts for many different aspects of how the AI handles a walkoff situation - it seems to correctly avoid stealing bases or stretching singles and doubles for runners who don't represent either the tying or winning run. (Runners *will* take free bases on wild pitches or errors and the like, which seems fine since it helps prevent force outs.)

There seems to be an issue handling cutoffs, however. More than once, I've seen an infielder cut off an outfielder's throw to home plate in order to stop the batter stretching a double to a triple - but in so doing completely disregard the fact that the runner gunning for home represents the winning run. It seems to me that the code that handles cutoffs - infielders judging that home plate is a lost cause and opting for getting the out at third instead - isn't properly adjusting to the specific scenario of a runner representing the winning run trying for home.

There should really only be two possibilities I can think of there - no cutoff, or the infielder cuts off and then unleashes a throw to home plate himself, because the throw from the outfield sucked. Even if there's only an 0,01% chance of the throw beating the runner (maybe they'll trip and fall over their own feet), it's the only sensible thing to do. (The other thing you can hope for is that the runner somehow hasn't managed to touch all the bases, or left his basepath, and is called out on appeal later. But even then - wouldn't he represent the third out? You wouldn't need the out at third - a "fourth out" - in that case, surely?)

IRL occasionally players are known to forget how many outs have been made, but this is really only a matter of players understanding the score line and the fact they're in the bottom of the 9th inning, which I assume pretty much anyone manages to do.

Now, I might be overlooking something major in my assessments of what's sensible and what's not - but since this is the internet, someone will be along to correct me. My understanding is that getting the out at third would only matter if the runner hadn't made it home by the time the batter-come-runner is tagged out at third, and that strikes me as highly unlikely. Is there some merit to cutting off the throw to home plate in this specific scenario that I'm not seeing?

Are there other cases of bottom of the 9th (or extra inning) wonkiness that you've witnessed in OOTP 19?

rjl518 · 09-25-2018, 10:53 PM

The AI Cheats!!!
Nuff said!

seven · 09-26-2018, 12:26 AM

Silfir,

Nicely stated. I've noticed something along these lines as well. This something that the developers could fix, now that it's been pointed out.

Dyzalot · 09-26-2018, 01:44 AM

It may simply be an issue of "optics". The game may have already determined that there is a zero percent chance of getting the runner and thus defaults to the cutoff. That should probably be fixed just for appearances sake but it may not affect anything from a practical matter.

sc_superstar · 09-28-2018, 12:55 AM

Maybe it could be a % play, since if the third out play happens before the run scores, then the run does not count. Maybe the AI views it as we have a 0.01% chance to get the runner at home, but a 0.05% chance to use the cut off man go to 3rd and get that runner before the other runner crosses the plate, so it takes the higher % play

09-25-2018, 05:11 PM	#1
Silfir Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 137	The Bottom of the 9th and the AI I'm sure the engine accounts for many different aspects of how the AI handles a walkoff situation - it seems to correctly avoid stealing bases or stretching singles and doubles for runners who don't represent either the tying or winning run. (Runners will take free bases on wild pitches or errors and the like, which seems fine since it helps prevent force outs.) There seems to be an issue handling cutoffs, however. More than once, I've seen an infielder cut off an outfielder's throw to home plate in order to stop the batter stretching a double to a triple - but in so doing completely disregard the fact that the runner gunning for home represents the winning run. It seems to me that the code that handles cutoffs - infielders judging that home plate is a lost cause and opting for getting the out at third instead - isn't properly adjusting to the specific scenario of a runner representing the winning run trying for home. There should really only be two possibilities I can think of there - no cutoff, or the infielder cuts off and then unleashes a throw to home plate himself, because the throw from the outfield sucked. Even if there's only an 0,01% chance of the throw beating the runner (maybe they'll trip and fall over their own feet), it's the only sensible thing to do. (The other thing you can hope for is that the runner somehow hasn't managed to touch all the bases, or left his basepath, and is called out on appeal later. But even then - wouldn't he represent the third out? You wouldn't need the out at third - a "fourth out" - in that case, surely?) IRL occasionally players are known to forget how many outs have been made, but this is really only a matter of players understanding the score line and the fact they're in the bottom of the 9th inning, which I assume pretty much anyone manages to do. Now, I might be overlooking something major in my assessments of what's sensible and what's not - but since this is the internet, someone will be along to correct me. My understanding is that getting the out at third would only matter if the runner hadn't made it home by the time the batter-come-runner is tagged out at third, and that strikes me as highly unlikely. Is there some merit to cutting off the throw to home plate in this specific scenario that I'm not seeing? Are there other cases of bottom of the 9th (or extra inning) wonkiness that you've witnessed in OOTP 19? Last edited by Silfir; 09-25-2018 at 05:26 PM.

09-25-2018, 10:53 PM	#2
rjl518 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Born in Shea Stadium, lives in LoanDepot Park. Posts: 6,238	The AI Cheats!!! Nuff said! __________________ My Threads: MLB Project 32 by SFGiants58 "Colon looking for his 1st hit of the year and he DRIVES ONE! Deep left field! Back goes Upton! Back near the wall! ITS OUTTA HERE!!! Bartolo has done it!!! THE IMPOSSIBLE HAS HAPPENED!!! This is one of the great moments in the history of baseball! Bartolo Colon has gone deep!" ---Gary Cohen. (May 7, 2016) (Petco Park) NYM 6 @ SD 3

09-26-2018, 12:26 AM	#3
seven All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Victoria, Canada Posts: 653	Silfir, Nicely stated. I've noticed something along these lines as well. This something that the developers could fix, now that it's been pointed out.

09-26-2018, 01:44 AM	#4
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,740	It may simply be an issue of "optics". The game may have already determined that there is a zero percent chance of getting the runner and thus defaults to the cutoff. That should probably be fixed just for appearances sake but it may not affect anything from a practical matter.

09-28-2018, 12:55 AM	#5
sc_superstar Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 407	Maybe it could be a % play, since if the third out play happens before the run scores, then the run does not count. Maybe the AI views it as we have a 0.01% chance to get the runner at home, but a 0.05% chance to use the cut off man go to 3rd and get that runner before the other runner crosses the plate, so it takes the higher % play