RP now have NEGATIVE value?

GoPedro99 · 08-29-2018, 12:42 PM

in a challenge mode save i am playing as the rockies. i am attempting to move shaw and mcgee however no one has any interest in them. they are both having very solid seasons and are not on really bad contracts. whenever i try to trade them teams are essentially valuing them negatively. I try to add them to sweeten a deal as the final piece but teams then want MORE to complete the deal than they did before they were included. Teams wont even trade 1$ cash or a 20/20 POT prospect for these guys
I know the trade value of RP is insanely low in real life too, however this seems off.

Orcin · 08-29-2018, 01:07 PM

I think they do have bad contracts. I would not pay that much for an ordinary reliever. Would you take Brett Cecil or Luke Gregerson for one of them?

Airdrop01 · 08-29-2018, 01:40 PM

Yeah, I think both those contracts are bad. That kind of money and time for RP is crazy..as were the Rox to pay them that way.

wallewalls · 08-29-2018, 01:43 PM

You’re probably gonna have to retain 50% of the contracts at a minimum to get anyone to bite.

Think about it from the teams perspective, why should they take those big money and big contract relievers when they can sign a better or just as good one in free agency for much less

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bombboy85 · 09-02-2018, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

Yeah, I think both those contracts are bad. That kind of money and time for RP is crazy..as were the Rox to pay them that way.

It is kind of funny/hypocritical how analysts have approached this subject the last few years. As a Rockies fan I've always read articles saying "The Rockies need to pay for pitching if they want to win" then they did pay and it turned to "why did the Rockies pay for pitching?!?" lol

ThePretender · 09-02-2018, 08:25 AM

The question was why did the Rockies spend for non elite relievers when they had other holes on the roster. You pay for quality pitching, not middle relief.

NoOne · 09-02-2018, 09:36 PM

dum-dum--dum-dum-dum... don't mind me, just humming to myself

or,

the GM is also their agent and thought, "wow, i'm going to make so much comission off these deals!"

Drstrangelove · 09-03-2018, 12:08 PM

Fangraphs did a study on this and concluded that GM's spend an inexplicable amount of money on relievers because owners will fire GM's faster when a team fails to win due to a perception that the bullpen was not strong enough over every other cause. I.e., lose because you didn't sign a star SS, or better #4 outfielder, because someone got injured, or had an off-year, or got suspended, or because the manager ruined the #3 starter's arm, and you are much less likely to lose your job than if you didn't have a good bullpen. If the owners and fans don't care about sabermetrics, it isn't going to be used 100% of the time.

Both relievers in question had good years prior to their contracts, and their salaries actually look cheap (avg $ per WAR) compared to "elite" relievers. Of course, hindsight is 30/20.

NoOne · 09-03-2018, 01:45 PM

highlighting more 'dumb', lol.

and, it's not about sabermetrics, from what i see -- although i'm sure similar conclusions can be drawn about that too... this is about accepting and understanding reality properly.

the owner has some emotional reaction to things that may or may not be correlated with real success and makes a stupid decision without ever truly understanding anything at all.

people that can afford a baseball team are mostly born into that kind of money. a 'mark cuban' is an exception and not the rule -- not saying mark cuban is smart or not as i have no idea, but far more likely to be smart than someone born into that class. being born into it is more likely just a typical distribution, which like talent in baseball is a pyramid-like shape. few at the top, most at bottom even if that bulk slightly skewed to middle.

the way sports teams are run, from a financial perspective, is like watching children kick a can around, giddily. the teams with discippline, restraint, and a real plan based in reality do well consistently over time. new england patriots are a great example of this. they don't overpay. they let players go or trade them if they are not part of their plans or as mentioned above will certainly want too much money out of the total pie relative to what you get in return from them on the field above and beyond the other 'best' options available.

one way or another, they understand baseline. they understand value of various levels above or below baseline. they make smart, informed decisions. money is everything... overspending it is just as bad and potenetially worse than a bust #1/1 draft pick, depending on absurdity involved.

sports radio fans are confounded by the patriots every year, lol... a lack of forethought and reasoning skills. i wish my local teams were run in similar ways.

damientheomen3 · 09-05-2018, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

highlighting more 'dumb', lol.

and, it's not about sabermetrics, from what i see -- although i'm sure similar conclusions can be drawn about that too... this is about accepting and understanding reality properly.

the owner has some emotional reaction to things that may or may not be correlated with real success and makes a stupid decision without ever truly understanding anything at all.

people that can afford a baseball team are mostly born into that kind of money. a 'mark cuban' is an exception and not the rule -- not saying mark cuban is smart or not as i have no idea, but far more likely to be smart than someone born into that class. being born into it is more likely just a typical distribution, which like talent in baseball is a pyramid-like shape. few at the top, most at bottom even if that bulk slightly skewed to middle.

the way sports teams are run, from a financial perspective, is like watching children kick a can around, giddily. the teams with discippline, restraint, and a real plan based in reality do well consistently over time. new england patriots are a great example of this. they don't overpay. they let players go or trade them if they are not part of their plans or as mentioned above will certainly want too much money out of the total pie relative to what you get in return from them on the field above and beyond the other 'best' options available.

one way or another, they understand baseline. they understand value of various levels above or below baseline. they make smart, informed decisions. money is everything... overspending it is just as bad and potenetially worse than a bust #1/1 draft pick, depending on absurdity involved.

sports radio fans are confounded by the patriots every year, lol... a lack of forethought and reasoning skills. i wish my local teams were run in similar ways.

It doesn't hurt that Bill Belichick's dad literally wrote the book on NFL scouting, or that he's one of two or three coaches across major American sports that can command enough respect to run things with a strict, disciplinarian style and not be run out by the players for creating a toxic/unfun culture to play in. Also doesn't hurt that since the league expanded they've been in a division with three of the most ineptly run franchises in the league (including my Jets). Or the fact that they just have Tom Brady in general who has been signed for an incredible value for just about his whole career. Or the fact that teams gift them highly-drafted players that they gave up on constantly. Or the fact that veteran players sign with them regularly to shore up their depth because they're the best run organization in the league.

**** the Patriots.

-A bitter Jets fan

09-03-2018, 12:08 PM	#8
Drstrangelove Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 346	Fangraphs did a study on this and concluded that GM's spend an inexplicable amount of money on relievers because owners will fire GM's faster when a team fails to win due to a perception that the bullpen was not strong enough over every other cause. I.e., lose because you didn't sign a star SS, or better #4 outfielder, because someone got injured, or had an off-year, or got suspended, or because the manager ruined the #3 starter's arm, and you are much less likely to lose your job than if you didn't have a good bullpen. If the owners and fans don't care about sabermetrics, it isn't going to be used 100% of the time. Both relievers in question had good years prior to their contracts, and their salaries actually look cheap (avg $ per WAR) compared to "elite" relievers. Of course, hindsight is 30/20. Last edited by Drstrangelove; 09-03-2018 at 12:15 PM.

08-29-2018, 12:42 PM	#1
GoPedro99 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 863	RP now have NEGATIVE value? in a challenge mode save i am playing as the rockies. i am attempting to move shaw and mcgee however no one has any interest in them. they are both having very solid seasons and are not on really bad contracts. whenever i try to trade them teams are essentially valuing them negatively. I try to add them to sweeten a deal as the final piece but teams then want MORE to complete the deal than they did before they were included. Teams wont even trade 1$ cash or a 20/20 POT prospect for these guys I know the trade value of RP is insanely low in real life too, however this seems off.

08-29-2018, 01:07 PM	#2
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,881	I think they do have bad contracts. I would not pay that much for an ordinary reliever. Would you take Brett Cecil or Luke Gregerson for one of them?

08-29-2018, 01:40 PM	#3
Airdrop01 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lenexa, KS / Wilson, WY Posts: 1,354	Yeah, I think both those contracts are bad. That kind of money and time for RP is crazy..as were the Rox to pay them that way. __________________

08-29-2018, 01:43 PM	#4
wallewalls All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 774 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	You’re probably gonna have to retain 50% of the contracts at a minimum to get anyone to bite. Think about it from the teams perspective, why should they take those big money and big contract relievers when they can sign a better or just as good one in free agency for much less Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09-02-2018, 08:25 AM	#6
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	The question was why did the Rockies spend for non elite relievers when they had other holes on the roster. You pay for quality pitching, not middle relief.

09-02-2018, 09:36 PM	#7
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	dum-dum--dum-dum-dum... don't mind me, just humming to myself or, the GM is also their agent and thought, "wow, i'm going to make so much comission off these deals!"

09-03-2018, 01:45 PM	#9
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	highlighting more 'dumb', lol. and, it's not about sabermetrics, from what i see -- although i'm sure similar conclusions can be drawn about that too... this is about accepting and understanding reality properly. the owner has some emotional reaction to things that may or may not be correlated with real success and makes a stupid decision without ever truly understanding anything at all. people that can afford a baseball team are mostly born into that kind of money. a 'mark cuban' is an exception and not the rule -- not saying mark cuban is smart or not as i have no idea, but far more likely to be smart than someone born into that class. being born into it is more likely just a typical distribution, which like talent in baseball is a pyramid-like shape. few at the top, most at bottom even if that bulk slightly skewed to middle. the way sports teams are run, from a financial perspective, is like watching children kick a can around, giddily. the teams with discippline, restraint, and a real plan based in reality do well consistently over time. new england patriots are a great example of this. they don't overpay. they let players go or trade them if they are not part of their plans or as mentioned above will certainly want too much money out of the total pie relative to what you get in return from them on the field above and beyond the other 'best' options available. one way or another, they understand baseline. they understand value of various levels above or below baseline. they make smart, informed decisions. money is everything... overspending it is just as bad and potenetially worse than a bust #1/1 draft pick, depending on absurdity involved. sports radio fans are confounded by the patriots every year, lol... a lack of forethought and reasoning skills. i wish my local teams were run in similar ways.