Diamond Mind Vs. OOTP

freew · 04-02-2002, 08:02 AM

Hello,

I having been playing DMB for a few years and happened to stumble onto info about OOTP. From what I have read it sounds like a great game.

Can anyone who played DMB give me feedback regarding the two games...
IS ootp as statisctally accurate as DMB ?
How do the managerial options during the game compare between the two games ?
Which game do you prefer ?

Thanks!

Granny Hamner · 04-02-2002, 08:50 AM

I was all set to start a 1950 replay with Diamond Mind when I stumbled onto OOTP3 (I now have OOTP4). For a solo player like me, I really have no reason to go back to DMB. I was always annoyed by the lack of career play and GM functions for non-human teams in DMB -- OOTP does both, and a whole lot more. I can't personally vouch for statistical accuracy, but others on this board seem to have validated OOTP in that respect.

The only aspect where DMB has it over OOTP is the play by play and actual game play. DMB's PBP is crisper and more realistic, and the pitch-by-pitch option is terrific. OOTP4 is essentially a batter-by-batter game. Its simulation of foul balls and practically every other game event is still the best. DMB also seems to me to give me more managerial options (pickoff, advance runner, etc.) than OOTP, although OOTP still has these. OOTP4 added foul ball descriptions which helps with the game play.

But OOTP wins in my mind because it gives you so much more, such as:

(1) Replay any season in baseball history;
(2) Start a career league at any point in history and create alternative baseball history;
(3) Use logos and stadium pics for each team, along with PLAYER PHOTOS (even old time players!);
(4) Full GM functions -- including trades, DL, contract negotiations, free agency, minor leagues, scouts, etc.
(5) A realistic out-of-town scoreboard during games -- this is something I've wanted in a baseball game for 15 years.

I also really like the new feature in OOTP4 where you can't see any of the players' ratings. You must rely on past stats and your scout's description. This is much more difficult and interesting, and in my mind more realistic.

To me DMB is just a single season statistical replay game (e.g. How would 1964 turn out if Hank Aaron were on the Phillies?). OOTP4 tries to simulate much more about baseball, from picking talent to assembling lineups to calling in the right reliever to negotiating contracts to making trades to building a multi-year pennant winning dynasty. If you are like me and want more out of your PC sim, then OOTP4 wins hands down.

cjlawl · 04-02-2002, 08:58 AM

I have played both games, I just completed the 2000 season of Dmb before I bought ootp4. Dmb Is accurate If you play the season with the exact lineups,transactions and so on. But If you controll one team the stats change alot. Dmb is a great game but playing a full season with one team gets stale after awhile. Ootp4 is really a breath of fresh air, It is very accurate If you follow the ratings of each player ,but you can scout players in different modes and you can be the judge on how they do,when playing one team, you can trade move players around your organization and even put them on the trading block. Each players card has hundreds of stats and ratings to follow during the season. I will not buy the new 2002 Dmb season, ootp is a deep game and alot fun. Plus this board makes ootp4 an even better game.

masoo · 04-02-2002, 09:38 AM

"IS ootp as statisctally accurate as DMB ?"

No. It doesn't really try to be as statistically accurate as DMB, though, so it's not as big a deal as you think. Its stat accuracy makes internal sense, if you know what I mean. A "real" player, say Barry Bonds, won't come as close in matching his sim stats to his real stats with OOTP compared to DMB, but a "Barry Bonds type" player in OOTP will have a career that makes sense.

"How do the managerial options during the game compare between the two games ?"

DMB is better if you like to manage individual games. Far as I can tell, many OOTP players, myself included, don't often manage an individual game ... the joy of OOTP is in the multi-season narrative.

"Which game do you prefer ?"

They do two different things. You'll think "hey, two text-based baseball sims" and assume they are similar, but in fact, they are not. It makes v.little sense to compare the two, which doesn't stop DMB fanatics from dissing OOTP and vice versa. Here's how I'd put it:

Want stat accuracy and in-game managing? Choose DMB.

Want career-play options? Choose OOTP.

Like both ideas? Play 'em both, no reason not to. Of course, if we're talking total preferences, then Championship Manager is still the best.

[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: masoo ]</p>

Qrashman · 04-02-2002, 11:17 AM

masoo is correct. If you are looking for an "Exact" replay of a season, OOTP4 is not your game.

The best part of this game is that even though Barry Bonds hit 73 homers last year, there is still the possibility that he could have a down season. Maybe he'll be nagged by injuries and only hit 35. Maybe he'll hit more doubles but only sock 60 homers.

I've seen players with a 5 hit rating (which is average) bat .330. I've seen players with an 8 hit rating (which is great) bat .281 and then come back to bat .325 the next season.

Prospects can be busts or gems. Rookies can hit the wall in their sophomore season. I had a rookie in my league have 19 wins with a 3.50 ERA, only to bust the next season going 9-13 with an ERA of almost 5. We'll see what he does next season.

The game makes you second guess yourself. You'll lose sleep at night because you knew you should have bat the lefty 2nd, not 6th. I spend many a minutes arguing with myself whether I start Javier Vasquez or Tony Armas because one has a better record at home, but one dominates lefties.

The game rocks. Also, you don't have to spend money buying season disks. Play any season you want for FREE.

Steve Strzepek of BTTF · 04-02-2002, 11:27 AM

I've been playing DMB for 6 years, started OOTP3 last year.............OOTP has me hooked

majormet · 04-02-2002, 03:29 PM

It is like comparing eating at a buffet as compared to eating at a restaurant.

I play both games and appreciate both.

DMB is strong in replaying a season and I think the in-game accuracy may be better so I end up using DMB to run my replay leagues on the net and you can review at <a href="http://www.majormet.com" target="_blank">http://www.majormet.com</a> to see what it produces.

However OOTP is the true game, as most of us have found out. If you want to

a) Recreate history
b) Have an abundance of control
c) Create alternate reality
d) deal with finances, and market size stats
e) manage minors
f) develop and train players.

OOTP is a game that can be played solitaire for hours, DMB can not.

DMB is good for online leagues that require submitting lineups and adjusting for injuries and replaying history one year at a time.

To sum it up.

DMB if you are curious to see if Barry Bonds will hit 100 homers if he were to have played at coors in 2001.

OOTP if you were curious to see if Barry Bonds would have developed properly with bad coaches, and if Brad Komminsk would have been the man.

Dargone · 04-03-2002, 03:22 AM

OOTP4 has great replay value. Plus, there are so many ways to play. There just isn't enough time in the day...

rob · 04-03-2002, 04:57 AM

It all depends on what you want. Games like Diamond Mind and Strat-O-Matic are far superior in producing realistic results for current and past seasons. However, neither of those games feature any sort of career mode at all. Diamond Mind and Strat are more expensive as far as buying past seasons and such, but they put tons of research into it(at least Strat does, can't speak for DMB).

The fanatics on one side will rave about the realism of their games over OOTP. The fanatics on the other side will rave about the wealth of options and the fun of the career mode in OOTP.

Me, I sit on the middle of the fence. I love Strat-O-Matic to death, but also have fun playing OOTP. I play the real seasons on Strat, and I have a fictional league going in OOTP4. This works for me. I know this thread was about DMB, which I've played, but most of my experience is in Strato.

Malleus Dei · 04-03-2002, 05:08 AM

I played DMB since it was Pursue the Pennant 1.0 and it came on one floppy. I respect it a lot for what it does.

>IS ootp as statisctally accurate as DMB ?

Nope. It's ratings-based, not stats-replay-based. You WILL get surprises. (And I like this! I don't want Joe Batter to hit .277 and slug .498 in real life and then .276 and .499 in my season replay - BORING! Totally predictable, in games and in the rest of life = not so much fun.)

>How do the managerial options during the game >compare between the two games ?

DMB has a tad more. OOTP is catching up and will probably surpass it in a version or two.

>Which game do you prefer ?

OOTP. It's not even close. The GM/owner aspects, the minors, the career leagues, free historical seasons, the fictional leagues, free agency, the user add-ons...well, the list just goes on and on.

DMB - which is a fine game - gives you great season replays. OOTP, on the other hand, gives you everything else under the sun. If you just want really accurate season replays, then stay with DMB. But if you want to have more fun with a baseball simulation that you believed was possible, get OOTP.

Scott Vibert · 04-03-2002, 05:12 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Malleus Dei:
<strong>(And I like this! I don't want Joe Batter to hit .277 and slug .498 in real life and then .276 and .499 in my season replay - BORING! Totally predictable, in games and in the rest of life = not so much fun.)
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

freew · 04-17-2002, 07:19 AM

After reading all your informative comments I grabbed Season Ticket baseball when I was at Walmart one day --

Love the game!

GR8Madmax · 04-17-2002, 07:34 AM

Welcome aboard freew..

Malleus Dei · 04-17-2002, 10:48 AM

Freew:

Now hit <a href="http://www.bigcitybaseball.com," target="_blank">www.bigcitybaseball.com,</a> <a href="http://www.baseballsimcentral.com," target="_blank">www.baseballsimcentral.com,</a> and <a href="http://www.ootpworld.com" target="_blank">www.ootpworld.com</a> for the add-ons...

HolyCow98 · 04-19-2002, 09:05 AM

If you want a season-only replay simulator than nothing compares to DM8. If you are looking for a something more flexible and customizable than OOTP4 is for you. Career play adds alot more for me then watching a replay and have very few surprises. I like the fact that a guy can hit 49 HR than the next year lite it up with 73...wait..was that OOTP4 or was that...never mind. OOTP4 offers replays too but it still will surprise you as things in history change or never happen (Maris never hitting ahead of Mick on the '61 yankees) and amazing things that never happened, the lahman database being able to do historic season and even historic careers with all the real players but just don't expect that if Teddy baseball hit .406 or Sandy Koufax career was ended by chronic arthritis in his shoulder that you may see it, I wonder how many games he would win ...will get the game and try it out.

hanover00 · 04-19-2002, 09:30 AM

(And I like this! I don't want Joe Batter to hit .277 and slug .498 in real life and then .276 and .499 in my season replay - BORING! Totally predictable, in games and in the rest of life = not so much fun.)

Not only do I agree with this, I think 00TP4 captures the drama and excitement that live sport can brings us by building-in a statistical band of uncertainty to the game. The results I've seen are always plausible, but never totally predictable.

Gray · 04-23-2002, 08:38 AM

I think that they are actually two seperate games and not really comparable at all. Diamond Mind, APBA Base Ball for Windows, et el. are designed for accurate reproductiond of past seasons. Though DMB does do the projection disks. Though OOTP4 can replay "historical seasons" it is designed more to recreate what it is like to be a General Manager rather than faithful reproductions.

I play all three games and enjoy DMB and BBW for their accuracy in recreating past seasons. I enjoy OOTP4 to challenge myslef agianst the Computer in buidling and developing a team.

lpoulas · 04-23-2002, 10:04 AM

Without having spent a comparable amount of time with OOTP4 (compared to DMB) yet, I 100% agree that DMB is more accurate data wise, but I am frothing at the mouth waiting to get through a few season in the OOTP4 Career mode.

I am on the fence, DMB blew my doors off, I am hoping OOTP4 does the same.

04-02-2002, 08:02 AM	#1
freew Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 41	Diamond Mind Vs. OOTP Hello, I having been playing DMB for a few years and happened to stumble onto info about OOTP. From what I have read it sounds like a great game. Can anyone who played DMB give me feedback regarding the two games... IS ootp as statisctally accurate as DMB ? How do the managerial options during the game compare between the two games ? Which game do you prefer ? Thanks! __________________ Directory of OOTP online leagues: http://sim-leagues.com

04-02-2002, 08:50 AM	#2
Granny Hamner Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 51	I was all set to start a 1950 replay with Diamond Mind when I stumbled onto OOTP3 (I now have OOTP4). For a solo player like me, I really have no reason to go back to DMB. I was always annoyed by the lack of career play and GM functions for non-human teams in DMB -- OOTP does both, and a whole lot more. I can't personally vouch for statistical accuracy, but others on this board seem to have validated OOTP in that respect. The only aspect where DMB has it over OOTP is the play by play and actual game play. DMB's PBP is crisper and more realistic, and the pitch-by-pitch option is terrific. OOTP4 is essentially a batter-by-batter game. Its simulation of foul balls and practically every other game event is still the best. DMB also seems to me to give me more managerial options (pickoff, advance runner, etc.) than OOTP, although OOTP still has these. OOTP4 added foul ball descriptions which helps with the game play. But OOTP wins in my mind because it gives you so much more, such as: (1) Replay any season in baseball history; (2) Start a career league at any point in history and create alternative baseball history; (3) Use logos and stadium pics for each team, along with PLAYER PHOTOS (even old time players!); (4) Full GM functions -- including trades, DL, contract negotiations, free agency, minor leagues, scouts, etc. (5) A realistic out-of-town scoreboard during games -- this is something I've wanted in a baseball game for 15 years. I also really like the new feature in OOTP4 where you can't see any of the players' ratings. You must rely on past stats and your scout's description. This is much more difficult and interesting, and in my mind more realistic. To me DMB is just a single season statistical replay game (e.g. How would 1964 turn out if Hank Aaron were on the Phillies?). OOTP4 tries to simulate much more about baseball, from picking talent to assembling lineups to calling in the right reliever to negotiating contracts to making trades to building a multi-year pennant winning dynasty. If you are like me and want more out of your PC sim, then OOTP4 wins hands down. __________________ "Q - What's it like being the smallest guy in the majors? A- It's a lot better than being the smallest guy in the minors." -- Billy Bates.

04-02-2002, 08:58 AM	#3
cjlawl Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cape Coral , Fla Posts: 97	I have played both games, I just completed the 2000 season of Dmb before I bought ootp4. Dmb Is accurate If you play the season with the exact lineups,transactions and so on. But If you controll one team the stats change alot. Dmb is a great game but playing a full season with one team gets stale after awhile. Ootp4 is really a breath of fresh air, It is very accurate If you follow the ratings of each player ,but you can scout players in different modes and you can be the judge on how they do,when playing one team, you can trade move players around your organization and even put them on the trading block. Each players card has hundreds of stats and ratings to follow during the season. I will not buy the new 2002 Dmb season, ootp is a deep game and alot fun. Plus this board makes ootp4 an even better game. __________________ WBL-Caracas Diablos

04-02-2002, 09:38 AM	#4
masoo Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 155	"IS ootp as statisctally accurate as DMB ?" No. It doesn't really try to be as statistically accurate as DMB, though, so it's not as big a deal as you think. Its stat accuracy makes internal sense, if you know what I mean. A "real" player, say Barry Bonds, won't come as close in matching his sim stats to his real stats with OOTP compared to DMB, but a "Barry Bonds type" player in OOTP will have a career that makes sense. "How do the managerial options during the game compare between the two games ?" DMB is better if you like to manage individual games. Far as I can tell, many OOTP players, myself included, don't often manage an individual game ... the joy of OOTP is in the multi-season narrative. "Which game do you prefer ?" They do two different things. You'll think "hey, two text-based baseball sims" and assume they are similar, but in fact, they are not. It makes v.little sense to compare the two, which doesn't stop DMB fanatics from dissing OOTP and vice versa. Here's how I'd put it: Want stat accuracy and in-game managing? Choose DMB. Want career-play options? Choose OOTP. Like both ideas? Play 'em both, no reason not to. Of course, if we're talking total preferences, then Championship Manager is still the best. [ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: masoo ]</p> __________________

04-02-2002, 11:17 AM	#5
Qrashman All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NY Posts: 651	masoo is correct. If you are looking for an "Exact" replay of a season, OOTP4 is not your game. The best part of this game is that even though Barry Bonds hit 73 homers last year, there is still the possibility that he could have a down season. Maybe he'll be nagged by injuries and only hit 35. Maybe he'll hit more doubles but only sock 60 homers. I've seen players with a 5 hit rating (which is average) bat .330. I've seen players with an 8 hit rating (which is great) bat .281 and then come back to bat .325 the next season. Prospects can be busts or gems. Rookies can hit the wall in their sophomore season. I had a rookie in my league have 19 wins with a 3.50 ERA, only to bust the next season going 9-13 with an ERA of almost 5. We'll see what he does next season. The game makes you second guess yourself. You'll lose sleep at night because you knew you should have bat the lefty 2nd, not 6th. I spend many a minutes arguing with myself whether I start Javier Vasquez or Tony Armas because one has a better record at home, but one dominates lefties. The game rocks. Also, you don't have to spend money buying season disks. Play any season you want for FREE. __________________ ------------------- Montreal Expos / Calgary Storm, HBL HBL Baseball - Founded March 2001. HBL Waiting List

04-02-2002, 11:27 AM	#6
Steve Strzepek of BTTF Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Corning, N.Y. Posts: 171	I've been playing DMB for 6 years, started OOTP3 last year.............OOTP has me hooked __________________ Steve Strzepek BTTF Commish <a href="http://www.staudernet.com/bttf" target="_blank">http://www.staudernet.com/bttf</a>

04-02-2002, 03:29 PM	#7
majormet Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,536	It is like comparing eating at a buffet as compared to eating at a restaurant. I play both games and appreciate both. DMB is strong in replaying a season and I think the in-game accuracy may be better so I end up using DMB to run my replay leagues on the net and you can review at <a href="http://www.majormet.com" target="_blank">http://www.majormet.com</a> to see what it produces. However OOTP is the true game, as most of us have found out. If you want to a) Recreate history b) Have an abundance of control c) Create alternate reality d) deal with finances, and market size stats e) manage minors f) develop and train players. OOTP is a game that can be played solitaire for hours, DMB can not. DMB is good for online leagues that require submitting lineups and adjusting for injuries and replaying history one year at a time. To sum it up. DMB if you are curious to see if Barry Bonds will hit 100 homers if he were to have played at coors in 2001. OOTP if you were curious to see if Barry Bonds would have developed properly with bad coaches, and if Brad Komminsk would have been the man.

04-03-2002, 03:22 AM	#8
Dargone Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Interwebs Posts: 2,862	OOTP4 has great replay value. Plus, there are so many ways to play. There just isn't enough time in the day... __________________ I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell

04-03-2002, 04:57 AM	#9
rob Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12	It all depends on what you want. Games like Diamond Mind and Strat-O-Matic are far superior in producing realistic results for current and past seasons. However, neither of those games feature any sort of career mode at all. Diamond Mind and Strat are more expensive as far as buying past seasons and such, but they put tons of research into it(at least Strat does, can't speak for DMB). The fanatics on one side will rave about the realism of their games over OOTP. The fanatics on the other side will rave about the wealth of options and the fun of the career mode in OOTP. Me, I sit on the middle of the fence. I love Strat-O-Matic to death, but also have fun playing OOTP. I play the real seasons on Strat, and I have a fictional league going in OOTP4. This works for me. I know this thread was about DMB, which I've played, but most of my experience is in Strato. __________________ Hear my band d'Visitors at <a href="http://www.mp3.com/project_pluto" target="_blank">www.mp3.com/project_pluto</a>

04-03-2002, 05:12 AM	#11
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,251	[quote]Originally posted by Malleus Dei: <strong>(And I like this! I don't want Joe Batter to hit .277 and slug .498 in real life and then .276 and .499 in my season replay - BORING! Totally predictable, in games and in the rest of life = not so much fun.) </strong><hr></blockquote> I agree wholeheartedly with this.

04-17-2002, 07:19 AM	#12
freew Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 41	After reading all your informative comments I grabbed Season Ticket baseball when I was at Walmart one day -- Love the game! __________________ Directory of OOTP online leagues: http://sim-leagues.com

04-17-2002, 07:34 AM	#13
GR8Madmax Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 94	Welcome aboard freew..

04-19-2002, 09:05 AM	#15
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	If you want a season-only replay simulator than nothing compares to DM8. If you are looking for a something more flexible and customizable than OOTP4 is for you. Career play adds alot more for me then watching a replay and have very few surprises. I like the fact that a guy can hit 49 HR than the next year lite it up with 73...wait..was that OOTP4 or was that...never mind. OOTP4 offers replays too but it still will surprise you as things in history change or never happen (Maris never hitting ahead of Mick on the '61 yankees) and amazing things that never happened, the lahman database being able to do historic season and even historic careers with all the real players but just don't expect that if Teddy baseball hit .406 or Sandy Koufax career was ended by chronic arthritis in his shoulder that you may see it, I wonder how many games he would win ...will get the game and try it out. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

04-19-2002, 09:30 AM	#16
hanover00 Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1	(And I like this! I don't want Joe Batter to hit .277 and slug .498 in real life and then .276 and .499 in my season replay - BORING! Totally predictable, in games and in the rest of life = not so much fun.) Not only do I agree with this, I think 00TP4 captures the drama and excitement that live sport can brings us by building-in a statistical band of uncertainty to the game. The results I've seen are always plausible, but never totally predictable.

04-23-2002, 08:38 AM	#17
Gray Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 12	I think that they are actually two seperate games and not really comparable at all. Diamond Mind, APBA Base Ball for Windows, et el. are designed for accurate reproductiond of past seasons. Though DMB does do the projection disks. Though OOTP4 can replay "historical seasons" it is designed more to recreate what it is like to be a General Manager rather than faithful reproductions. I play all three games and enjoy DMB and BBW for their accuracy in recreating past seasons. I enjoy OOTP4 to challenge myslef agianst the Computer in buidling and developing a team.

04-23-2002, 10:04 AM	#18
lpoulas Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Jersey Posts: 75	Without having spent a comparable amount of time with OOTP4 (compared to DMB) yet, I 100% agree that DMB is more accurate data wise, but I am frothing at the mouth waiting to get through a few season in the OOTP4 Career mode. I am on the fence, DMB blew my doors off, I am hoping OOTP4 does the same. __________________ Commissioner, <a href="http://www.geocities.com/lpoulas/ATB.html" target="_blank">All Time Baseball</a>