Beta Hotfix Patch 70 (Version 19.8.70)!

[swoboda]

Observation since version 5: the developers try very hard to please us and try to do so as quickly as they can. IMHO responsiveness that is well above and beyond the norm

More recent observation: the patches led to significant unforeseen problems more often than they did years ago, probably, as others have written, due to the increasing complexity of the software.

Most recent observation: I have had two fatal unfixable crashes this year (mid season) and that is one more than I have ever had before. But starting this year I have copied my saved game file almost daily and pasted it onto cloud storage. That way I should never lose more than a day or so from my game even if my PC goes down for the count. Agree with others this extra step does not take much time, it just takes some diligence

[hammerstringz]

If I'm a steam user, how do I go back to a previous version of the game until a new patch comes out to test? I just can't stand the in-game delays, it feels like it takes twice as long for me to play a game. I'm currently using v70.. need to go back to whichever version it was before they added the new improvements for no game play lag.

[Reggie]

Seems odd to me that my game froze twice in a row in the middle of the 3rd inning.

[Reggie]

Maybe I missed it..but are we considering everything fixed with build 70? I'm getting freeze ups since I installed the hot fix that I wasn't getting before. Support ticket?

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by Reggie

Maybe I missed it..but are we considering everything fixed with build 70? I'm getting freeze ups since I installed the hot fix that I wasn't getting before. Support ticket?

probably be a good idea, as well as zipping your .dat files (per Lukas Berger's signature) and sending those to be looked at. The more they have to examine, the better chances of this getting fixed sooner than later ...

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Reggie

Maybe I missed it..but are we considering everything fixed with build 70? I'm getting freeze ups since I installed the hot fix that I wasn't getting before. Support ticket?

Yes, please file support tickets with as much detail as you can (what were you doing when it froze, league details, machine details, etc...). If the league repeatedly crashes/freezes in the same spot it would help to send league files too - if it's random, or happens with multiple different leagues, it may be a system issue.

Attaching screenshots is always helpful too. Sometimes they can even be more useful than a league file as we can see exactly what you're seeing too.

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Yes, please file support tickets with as much detail as you can (what were you doing when it froze, league details, machine details, etc...). If the league repeatedly crashes/freezes in the same spot it would help to send league files too - if it's random, or happens with multiple different leagues, it may be a system issue.

Attaching screenshots is always helpful too. Sometimes they can even be more useful than a league file as we can see exactly what you're seeing too.

Can't do a screen shot because my computer freezes and I have no control over anything. I have to hold the power button to restart the computer. So far it has been 2 times...both in the middle of the 3rd inning as the players were running off the field that it froze. I will try to send details next time it happens. Will probably be a few days before I am able to play again.

[Lawn Loaf]

Originally Posted by Sweed

No, its because users request them and then expect them to be added because most of them are "easy" and should be in the game. OOTP has used this model since I purchased my first game in 2002 and it is usually very much appreciated by the masses and rarely requires a fix. You can disagree with the model of course but as a user, for 16 years, I can tell you it is popular, expected, and one of the things that has made OOTP successful. It is not to test something for "free" or to get a head start on next year's version.

This latest patch cycle is not typical and, I would say, easily the biggest mess I've seen in all of these years. Something went wrong, we all make mistakes and they are working their tails off trying to fix it asap. It's frustrating for many users and I would think doubly so for them. Somebody will probably post "they broke it they should fix it", "it's there job, they're being paid so tough luck if they feel frustrated" etc. and while that is all true they are doing just that IE working hard to fix it.

As far as this patch I'm not sure what "all these updates" are that would make me think they went too far but, the patch list seems to have been lost with all of the editing to the original threads as they post new links to hot fixes.
The only two "big" things I recall is the shop player improvement and that's just a sort feature that I can't imagine interacts with a lineup screen in game or almost any other.

The second is the "optimized image resize" that they say can cause slow downs but is disabled by default. I'm not a coder but I would think disabled means it skips that code all together?

Maybe I'm not remembering something more complex?

Look, you just made my argument for me: "No, its because users request them and then expect them to be added because most of them are "easy" and should be in the game"

Yet, you never answered my question in regards to putting out a complete working game without the need for updates and patching, and putting those resources into the next version of the game.
What you are telling me is that the majority of users on this game EXPECT to pay for an incomplete game that requires patches, updates, and user beware...
I'm not up for a good hamster wheel spin when I pay for what I EXPECT, is a clear running and functional game.
However, why do I care? I have not installed any patch or update.
However, I know now that if I purchase this game on the release date, I do so knowing that is an unfinished product.
Not to be degrading, but I will refer to this game as the "cult of Markus" and no longer OOTP

[Airdrop01]

I’ll just say this: People are human. That means we make mistakes. Sometimes they are big ones. Sometimes they are small ones. Sometimes they are big to some and not to others.

If the biggest beef you have is a patch messing up a game, when you can go back to the prior working version, which is what I did, or for that matter, even if you can’t, you just have a pretty great life.

I mean, maybe I have perspective because of my personal health as mentioned in the talk sports forum about the 8/10 ballgame between the Birdnals and Royals, but I just think everyone should relax on all fronts. You’ll be happier if you do. I promise.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

I’ll just say this: People are human. That means we make mistakes. Sometimes they are big ones. Sometimes they are small ones. Sometimes they are big to some and not to others.

If the biggest beef you have is a patch messing up a game, when you can go back to the prior working version, which is what I did, or for that matter, even if you can’t, you just have a pretty great life.

I mean, maybe I have perspective because of my personal health as mentioned in the talk sports forum about the 8/10 ballgame between the Birdnals and Royals, but I just think everyone should relax on all fronts. You’ll be happier if you do. I promise.

Great advice!

[Lawn Loaf]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

I’ll just say this: People are human. That means we make mistakes. Sometimes they are big ones. Sometimes they are small ones. Sometimes they are big to some and not to others.

If the biggest beef you have is a patch messing up a game, when you can go back to the prior working version, which is what I did, or for that matter, even if you can’t, you just have a pretty great life.

I mean, maybe I have perspective because of my personal health as mentioned in the talk sports forum about the 8/10 ballgame between the Birdnals and Royals, but I just think everyone should relax on all fronts. You’ll be happier if you do. I promise.

"People are human. That means we make mistakes. Sometimes they are big ones. Sometimes they are small ones. Sometimes they are big to some and not to others."
Tell that to the next mechanic or contractor who you pay to do a job and it isn't done up to the expectations of what you were understanding it would be.
You have a strawman argument, recommend me to going back to "my happy life" because I bitch about a product I paid for full price, under the assumption it was in working condition, complete and playable, and it is not.
Take your "workplace exceptionalism" and stick it where the sun don't shine!
Please make sure you don't bring up any conditions to my argument, tell me to suck it up and like it. Damn, the cult runs deep....
I'll entertain an actual discussion to my qualms, not your mindless chatter.

[Airdrop01]

Have it your way. You seem very happy.

[Lawn Loaf]

Thanks for the deep insight and depth of your counter argument.
I don't need to be baited into a loss leader of a discussion in regards to my "happiness".
I have asked legit questions, hopefully someone can enlighten me and dissuade me from my current position.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

Look, you just made my argument for me: "No, its because users request them and then expect them to be added because most of them are "easy" and should be in the game"

Yet, you never answered my question in regards to putting out a complete working game without the need for updates and patching, and putting those resources into the next version of the game.
What you are telling me is that the majority of users on this game EXPECT to pay for an incomplete game that requires patches, updates, and user beware...
I'm not up for a good hamster wheel spin when I pay for what I EXPECT, is a clear running and functional game.
However, why do I care? I have not installed any patch or update.
However, I know now that if I purchase this game on the release date, I do so knowing that is an unfinished product.
Not to be degrading, but I will refer to this game as the "cult of Markus" and no longer OOTP

To me you have an argument when it comes to a console where all hardware is the same. But your argument means nothing in today's world. That ship has sailed and isn't coming back, simple as that.

When you develop for pc, mac, there will never be a release that can be expected to have no issues for some users. Of course OOTP could go the way of other producers and just tell users "too bad, wait til next version". Feel free to list your top 10 pc games that didn't follow up with a patch.

You haven't patched and say you are happy. You haven't patched so why should you care? Well for someone that doesn't care you sure post a lot Everyone is free to wait for the final patch before playing the latest version and there are some long time users here who do just that.

As for me I've applied all of the patches and am still happily playing, with the new improvements And FWIW I have imported my on going game into every new version from 2002 til v19, installed all patches along the way, and have never lost my league or had to restart. So you'll have to excuse me if I have a little faith in Markus.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

"People are human. That means we make mistakes. Sometimes they are big ones. Sometimes they are small ones. Sometimes they are big to some and not to others."
Tell that to the next mechanic or contractor who you pay to do a job and it isn't done up to the expectations of what you were understanding it would be.
You have a strawman argument, recommend me to going back to "my happy life" because I bitch about a product I paid for full price, under the assumption it was in working condition, complete and playable, and it is not.
Take your "workplace exceptionalism" and stick it where the sun don't shine!
Please make sure you don't bring up any conditions to my argument, tell me to suck it up and like it. Damn, the cult runs deep....
I'll entertain an actual discussion to my qualms, not your mindless chatter.

Lots of hate and anger here. If you expect to get sympathy from people while you are calling them cult members, you have a lot to learn about life. Your frustration about the problems is understandable, and others share it but without attacking their fellow forum members. Those other forum members are just here to talk and learn about the game. You don't have to treat them like an enemy.

[Lawn Loaf]

Originally Posted by Sweed

To me you have an argument when it comes to a console where all hardware is the same. But your argument means nothing in today's world. That ship has sailed and isn't coming back, simple as that.

When you develop for pc, mac, there will never be a release that can be expected to have no issues for some users. Of course OOTP could go the way of other producers and just tell users "too bad, wait til next version". Feel free to list your top 10 pc games that didn't follow up with a patch.

You haven't patched and say you are happy. You haven't patched so why should you care? Well for someone that doesn't care you sure post a lot Everyone is free to wait for the final patch before playing the latest version and there are some long time users here who do just that.

As for me I've applied all of the patches and am still happily playing, with the new improvements And FWIW I have imported my on going game into every new version from 2002 til v19, installed all patches along the way, and have never lost my league or had to restart. So you'll have to excuse me if I have a little faith in Markus.

Why should I care, of course the blanket sabotage argument: Check out my image and answer your own question.

You say "Of course OOTP could go the way of other producers and just tell users "too bad, wait til next version"."
Or better yet, sell an incomplete game that you claim is the next version, with no acknowledgements or claims that is not complete or will need patches and updates: you go ahead and purchase under this false understanding, at full asking price, this game.
Then you find out it is not what you were led to believe, your answer is to quote 10 PC games that were not as advertised and tell me too bad, ship has sailed with your old school mentality? Really? Why do I care about 10 f'ing PC games, this is the only PC game I have purchased in the last 10 years.
Bud, make sure you do the testing for them and ride that hamster wheel of eternal gratitude, because they "gave" you this game to play.
Sounds like some Stockholm Syndrome to me, Again, tell me how that is right?

Of course, your answer to close all dialog is the whole "ship has sailed" silencer.

Maybe I have some faith in this crew, however if you believe all faith should never be questioned, how about you PYHOOYA and check out all the faith I have put in this game at this thread:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=285409

Really, I get a kick out of sharing my time, so jump of a bridge with all the veiled personal attacks.

Again, don't bring any argument to the table, simply crap on my concern and call me a malcontent, my argument means nothing and blah blah.
Still waiting for a valid counter to my argument.

and again, I'm glad you applied all the precautions to save yourself from the headache of having a patch or update obliterate your game, but what I gather from your post is you have probably involuntarily been forced on the hamster wheel of patch f-up before, you are wise to it now. Many others are not.
So that is the reason I post so much, and why I care.

[Lawn Loaf]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Lots of hate and anger here. If you expect to get sympathy from people while you are calling them cult members, you have a lot to learn about life. Your frustration about the problems is understandable, and others share it but without attacking their fellow forum members. Those other forum members are just here to talk and learn about the game. You don't have to treat them like an enemy.

Get outta here claiming a sympathy card. With the way OOTP players react to any questioning of the structure or integrity of the game, and how willing they are to jump on the hamster wheel of what I consider unneeded troubleshooting when the game goes to hell, I'd describe that mentality as cult like.
I'm not attacking anybody, and quit with the attack on me as a resolution to my disagreement.
If you would like to actually argue with me and my points with an actual counter argument, I'd be quite happy to hear it.

[BirdWatcher]

Ohfferchristsake, it's a damn game. It's a damn computer game based upon a damn game where you try to hit a round ball with a rounded wooden club. It's not gonna cure cancer or make your love life better or do your taxes even. It's not gonna make anyone love you more, and hopefully it won't make anyone love you any less either. It costs a pittance compared to most things you will spend comparable amounts of time obsessing over. And is probably a lot better then most of those things on your mental and physical health.
It's not a cult, it's not a hamster wheel. And, oh, by the way, it won't fix your car or build your house, so no, it's not a mechanic or a contractor either. It's not an exploding airbag that might kill you or toxic lead in your water. It's a little ole' game.
So. Take some deep breaths. Hug someone you love. Maybe read a good book or listen to some music that moves you. But mostly, please, stop with the over-reactions and nonsensical hostility.

[mm7607]

Well putting all the senseless bickering aside, this game is not working. I can get about 2 months played and then a crash. Won't restart until the second try. Also, it doesn't matter what league I'm using. I also did a complete uninstall and reinstall. Still the same.

So can we get an update from someone who knows whats going on?

[Lawn Loaf]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Ohfferchristsake, it's a damn game. It's a damn computer game based upon a damn game where you try to hit a round ball with a rounded wooden club. It's not gonna cure cancer or make your love life better or do your taxes even. It's not gonna make anyone love you more, and hopefully it won't make anyone love you any less either. It costs a pittance compared to most things you will spend comparable amounts of time obsessing over. And is probably a lot better then most of those things on your mental and physical health.
It's not a cult, it's not a hamster wheel. And, oh, by the way, it won't fix your car or build your house, so no, it's not a mechanic or a contractor either. It's not an exploding airbag that might kill you or toxic lead in your water. It's a little ole' game.
So. Take some deep breaths. Hug someone you love. Maybe read a good book or listen to some music that moves you. But mostly, please, stop with the over-reactions and nonsensical hostility.

You are right. All you have said is correct. I have ignorantly put my time into a product that wasn't all I was led to believe was. And nonetheless, I have paid a pittance for it. Hell, if I put a lousy dollar into a claw grabber machine and it gives me a split second of reaction time, I need to shut up. I'll hug my kids and tell them daddy made a mistake to believe the machine was legit.
I'm so hostile because I ask questions, and won't take ad hominem attacks or wafer thin vague "it's just how it is" answers, and remind me by golly, for chrissakes, I ought to read a book!

And make sure you question who loves me or what I love.
Great argument my friend, don't worry, I'll obsess over your reply