Any ideas on fan loyalty and fan interest

[ipodiipodi]

I am hoping to tap into the collective wisdom on whether anyone has successfully increases their team's fan interest over a course of 2-3 seasons.

Contrary to OOTP 18, where if you have successfully put together 2-3 winning seasons, you could dramatically increase the fan interest. Usually, after getting fan interest to 100, you would find the fan loyalty rating to increase. In OOTP 19, however, the team's fan interest seems to stuck. Fan interest may increase by a few points when signing a popular player, but then over the course of the season, the fan interest would drop and drift downward to a steady-state, despite winning and not losing any popular players. The reverse is also true. You could lose a a popular player due to trade or free agency, and your fan interest may drop. Eventually, the fan interest will drift upward and return to the same steady state.

Has anyone noticed this? And has anyone been successful in increasing their fan interest permanently?

Thanks!

[Critical Mass]

Haven't had that happen. My fan interest is so high that even when I lose a popular player, it's still at 100%

Sign popular players, win, keep ticket prices reasonable. That's it.

[ipodiipodi]

Originally Posted by Critical Mass

Haven't had that happen. My fan interest is so high that even when I lose a popular player, it's still at 100%

Sign popular players, win, keep ticket prices reasonable. That's it.

Thanks for taking the time to respond and share your experience with me. May I ask which team you are playing and if you remember what is your team's original fan interest?

I have played Detroit for 7 seasons, and winning 100+ games in the last 4, winning 2 WS in that span. I have kept some popular players (can't afford to keep all), and yet, my fan interest remains unchanged from 2018's level, it is stuck at 79.

Yes, it goes up for a short while if you signed a popular player or two, but eventually, despite winning, the fan interest will eventually drift downward. At least that has been the case in my experience.

[MisterTidster]

I think I have been experiencing your issue as well. I simmed through 20+ seasons with SF and everything worked as I expected. I’d win, fan interest would increase, eventually market size would increase with a reset in fan interest. I was able to keep pushing prices and everything was great.

Since then, I’ve played Texas for 15+ years and fan interest seems so much more fussy. Losing players have been a bigger hit to loyalty with Texas than SF and fan interest hasn’t increased as much with winning. I had thought that there might be fundamental differences in fan response between different franchises, but after reading the previous post it might be due to the fact that I have been much more aggressive with raising ticket prices with Texas than I did as GM with SF. I think I’ll lower ticket prices for a few seasons, even at the cost of total revenue and see if it impacts increases in fan loyalty. I’ll report back!

[ipodiipodi]

Originally Posted by MisterTidster

I think I have been experiencing your issue as well. I simmed through 20+ seasons with SF and everything worked as I expected. I’d win, fan interest would increase, eventually market size would increase with a reset in fan interest. I was able to keep pushing prices and everything was great.

Since then, I’ve played Texas for 15+ years and fan interest seems so much more fussy. Losing players have been a bigger hit to loyalty with Texas than SF and fan interest hasn’t increased as much with winning. I had thought that there might be fundamental differences in fan response between different franchises, but after reading the previous post it might be due to the fact that I have been much more aggressive with raising ticket prices with Texas than I did as GM with SF. I think I’ll lower ticket prices for a few seasons, even at the cost of total revenue and see if it impacts increases in fan loyalty. I’ll report back!

Mister Tidster, thank you for sharing your experience with me and I would certainly love to see your sim results when you have them.

Here is what I found, using controlled experimental methods. I used 2018 Indians. From the start, the Fan Interest sits at 63. In my first sim, I extended Brantly (in the second week of April) and ended the season with 103-59, and ticket price at $28. Fan Interest was at 83 by season's end.

In my second sim, using the Indians again, I also extended Brantly (at the same time as the first sim), set the ticket price at $28, and had a record of 100-62. The Fan Interest ended up at 73.

It's hard to understand what caused this huge disparity. I doubt that the slight difference in record could explain it. I tried to make both sims to be as equal as possible, and yet the Fan Interest ended up at very different places.

This really makes OOTP less enjoyable for me. For me, I enjoy seeing that my string of wins would increase the fan interest, thereby bringing more money, and thus allowing me to sign and keep a few good players, and eventually not just developing my team but also improving my fan base and financials. In OOTP 18, this is possible to achieve. But in OOTP19, this no longer seems impossible, as Fan Interest is seemingly influenced by things outside of winning and signing/retaining popular players.

I will try to experiment a little bit more.

[ipodiipodi]

Here is another data point, based on my third sim. Using the same team, I left the ticket price alone, at $25.50. Brantley was extended, and the team finished at 93-69. In this sim, the fan interest ended up at 68. No different from when Brantley was extended, at the time when the team was below 500.

I am inclined to believe that ticket price has minor, if any effect on influencing fan interest. While winning has ephemeral, and slight impact on fan interest, and the factor that plays the most important role in boosting the fan interest is signing/extending popular players.

If true, I am quite disappointed as it is no longer possible to grow a small market team into a larger one through consistent winning as losing big name/popular players will constantly erase your progress towards higher fan interest.

[Drstrangelove]

Originally Posted by ipodiipodi

If true, I am quite disappointed as it is no longer possible to grow a small market team into a larger one through consistent winning as losing big name/popular players will constantly erase your progress towards higher fan interest.

Maybe it's me or this isn't what you're expecting, but yea, that's how it actually works. Under default, some teams are weaker than others. E.g., c. 2016, Oakland can't compete with Boston, Miami can't compete with the Dodgers. Some people like to sim the way MLB actually works. Nonetheless, there are other options like manually changing all the markets and making them the same size, setting all the budgets to the same amount, making stadiums the same size, etc. If that's what you want, you're able to do that as you please. I'd suspect that in some of the leagues, they do just that so it's an even board.

[ipodiipodi]

Originally Posted by Drstrangelove

Maybe it's me or this isn't what you're expecting, but yea, that's how it actually works. Under default, some teams are weaker than others. E.g., c. 2016, Oakland can't compete with Boston, Miami can't compete with the Dodgers. Some people like to sim the way MLB actually works. Nonetheless, there are other options like manually changing all the markets and making them the same size, setting all the budgets to the same amount, making stadiums the same size, etc. If that's what you want, you're able to do that as you please. I'd suspect that in some of the leagues, they do just that so it's an even board.

Hi drstrangelove, thank you for your thoughts.

Unfortunately, my argument was taken out of context and I did not try to argue that Oakland should be like Boston. What I was trying to argue was that, in OOTP19, winning has a much smaller effect on increasing fan interest. As you can see from my Detroit's example given above, even after four seasons winning 100+ games, the fan interest remains largely unchanged. In OOTP18, going to playoffs for four straight seasons would probably increase your fan interest to 90 (if not 100). And sustained success would eventually increase the fan loyalty, leading to higher budget for your team. By contrast, in OOTP19, fan interest is harder to move, meaning that your team's budget will only increase slightly (and will never see a large boost that comes when fan loyalty/market size improves), even when you have a sustained success.

Never have I tried to argue that Oakland should have the same budget/market size/fan loyalty as Boston, or that disparity between the two teams is unfair. But rather, I am making the point that by making the fan interest so hard to move, a sustained success is your sim leads to very little tangible changes to your team.

Hope this helps,

[Airdrop01]

I don’t think it’s possible. It’s a bummer in Challenge Mode, especially since the Perfect Team is going to base rewards off challenge mode games. Basically, anyone who played as KC, Oakland, etc. is S C R E W E D.

[ipodiipodi]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

I don’t think it’s possible. It’s a bummer in Challenge Mode, especially since the Perfect Team is going to base rewards off challenge mode games. Basically, anyone who played as KC, Oakland, etc. is S C R E W E D.

If my testing is correct in that winning, even a sustained winning over several seasons, can only marginally improve the fan interest, then yes, you are essentially on the "treadmill," with very little chance to improve your team's financials, regardless of how good you are.

This may be by design, or perhaps I am off the mark. I suppose I liked OOTP18's fan interest algorithm more and I am just having trouble adjusting to OOTP19.

[jimmysthebestcop]

In my Pittsburgh file Market size increased. Fan loyalty increased. And Fan interest as well as Budget while I kept payroll still at bottom 5 teams.

Think I stopped it in 2023/2024.

I routinely got rid of popular players and brought players up. They would become popular and later be sent away. Repeating the cycle. Fan interest would drop but winning increased it back up.

Usually stayed above 90 but we were always deep into the playoffs. I had tickets up to $45 as well by end of file.

Not sure if this helps anyone.

[ipodiipodi]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

In my Pittsburgh file Market size increased. Fan loyalty increased. And Fan interest as well as Budget while I kept payroll still at bottom 5 teams.

Think I stopped it in 2023/2024.

I routinely got rid of popular players and brought players up. They would become popular and later be sent away. Repeating the cycle. Fan interest would drop but winning increased it back up.

Usually stayed above 90 but we were always deep into the playoffs. I had tickets up to $45 as well by end of file.

Not sure if this helps anyone.

Thanks, Jimmy. This is very helpful and I appreciate the data point you have provided!

[jimmysthebestcop]

My new file is actually Oakland so I will let you know how it goes once about 5 years into it. Think my tickets are around $14 and it feels much harder in the Size, Loyalty, Interest department. But I'm only starting 2020 and in 2019 I missed the playoffs by 1 game on the last day of the season.

But I'll try and pay attention and update.

[ipodiipodi]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

My new file is actually Oakland so I will let you know how it goes once about 5 years into it. Think my tickets are around $14 and it feels much harder in the Size, Loyalty, Interest department. But I'm only starting 2020 and in 2019 I missed the playoffs by 1 game on the last day of the season.

But I'll try and pay attention and update.

I look forward to seeing your updates.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Aug 1st 2020 record 62-44 probably around 5th-7th best record in baseball. Fan interest has actually declined slightly started at 52 beginning of season now its down to 49. 10 games up in our division. Loyalty hasn't moved from poor since 2018 started.

Not sure how we will do in playoffs but I expect to make it in at least.

[Drstrangelove]

Originally Posted by ipodiipodi

Hi drstrangelove, thank you for your thoughts.

Unfortunately, my argument was taken out of context and I did not try to argue that Oakland should be like Boston. What I was trying to argue was that, in OOTP19, winning has a much smaller effect on increasing fan interest. As you can see from my Detroit's example given above, even after four seasons winning 100+ games, the fan interest remains largely unchanged. In OOTP18, going to playoffs for four straight seasons would probably increase your fan interest to 90 (if not 100). And sustained success would eventually increase the fan loyalty, leading to higher budget for your team. By contrast, in OOTP19, fan interest is harder to move, meaning that your team's budget will only increase slightly (and will never see a large boost that comes when fan loyalty/market size improves), even when you have a sustained success.

Besides attendance, I'd guess that merchandising correlates to market size, and possibly fan interest. But, in RL, does wining always lead to higher attendance?

Oakland won 82 games, and finished 8th in 1968. They had an attendance of 837,000. In 1969-1973, they won 88, 89, 101, 93, and 94 games, winning 3 Division titles and 2 world series. They averaged 878,000 in attendance, virtually unchanged. In 1974, while winning their third WS in a row, they drew.... 845,000.

Should we assume the A's fans were far more interested but decided to not attend games? Or can we conclude that the lack of change in attendance reflected a lack of change in fan interest?

I guess in RL, fan interest doesn't seem to always show a bandwagon effect. Of course, that's only part of it. Attendance isn't the only thing that affects financials. Small markets start smaller in other budget areas too, and, those are just as likely not to change if fan interest doesn't change.

[dbqs]

It does seem to take a long time of prolonged success or failure for things to change. Obviously loyalty should take a while (and market size) but I wish there was a bit more of a sharper change in interest as things got better or worse. This is one area of the game I've been somewhat frustrated with as to realism.

Obviously it's hard to quantify though and I'm not entirely sure what a solution would be besides to bump up the effects of whatever the modifiers are a bit (or at least have the option to) - It would be cool to account for the "bandwagon" effect when a smaller team is doing really well. If the Mariners and Brewers were having the year they're having now in OOTP I don't think the fan interest would be accurate to how it is in reality. Also, the Marlins probably wouldn't be at "0" and therefore, OOTP is unrealistic.

Jokes aside, in my most recent game I turbocharged the White Sox rebuild - had a 100-loss year in 2018, .500 exactly in 2019, then 99 wins and a World Series trophy in 2020. 2021? Fan interest still sitting sub-50 and can barely sell $15 tickets. Womp womp. Not hitting enough home runs for these plebeians.

[ipodiipodi]

Glad to hear that several people have a similar experience, and that my observation is not an isolated incident.

[jimmysthebestcop]

Ok finished up my Oakland 2020 season with a WS win.. 1st day off season I get email saying loyalty has increased.

But that fan interest is still pegged at 49.

This is completely different then my previous fine of Pittsburgh. Both small markets with low interest and loyalty. Winning there increased interest a lot. There were off seasons where it drop to 60 cause of trades but if we were in a race it go to high 80s and low 90s.

Oakland's interest seems to only move depending on players signed and then through course of year it goes back to where it started. Meaning up or down.

My theory I'm working on is certain cities or teams or locations have to be bugged out.

I could never increase ticket price in Oakland. While Pittsburgh once we were winning it increased all the time.

Looks like winning in certain cities changes interest but others it dies not. Doesn't seem to make sense it's not universal.

[ipodiipodi]

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Ok finished up my Oakland 2020 season with a WS win.. 1st day off season I get email saying loyalty has increased.

But that fan interest is still pegged at 49.

This is completely different then my previous fine of Pittsburgh. Both small markets with low interest and loyalty. Winning there increased interest a lot. There were off seasons where it drop to 60 cause of trades but if we were in a race it go to high 80s and low 90s.

Oakland's interest seems to only move depending on players signed and then through course of year it goes back to where it started. Meaning up or down.

My theory I'm working on is certain cities or teams or locations have to be bugged out.

I could never increase ticket price in Oakland. While Pittsburgh once we were winning it increased all the time.

Looks like winning in certain cities changes interest but others it dies not. Doesn't seem to make sense it's not universal.

Thank you for your updates, Jimmy. I would hope that this is not a bug and that there are some unknowns that are put in place by the game designers. Although you can probably understand my frustration with this issue where you can win, and win a lot, without being able to improve the attendance, and by extension, the financials.