SP Stamina

[Critical Mass]

Why is it a SP with a Stamina of 30 (1-100 scale) can throw 70+ pitches with no problems to start a game, but a RP with the same stamina is only good for one inning?

[Marsupilami]

because RP is not SP

different training/warmup/ingame use etc

RP usually go max effort on every pitch

[Yarideki]

Somewhat related to this topic, how much impact would a 45 pitch inning have on a starter (let's say he can throw 135 pitches max) versus splitting those 45 pitches up over multiple innings of 15 pitches per inning? Would throwing more pitches in one inning cause more fatigue, tire a pitcher out more, and thus not be able to reach 135 total pitches before tiring that game?

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by Yarideki

Somewhat related to this topic, how much impact would a 45 pitch inning have on a starter (let's say he can throw 135 pitches max) versus splitting those 45 pitches up over multiple innings of 15 pitches per inning? Would throwing more pitches in one inning cause more fatigue, tire a pitcher out more, and thus not be able to reach 135 total pitches before tiring that game?

I don't believe so. One of the devs answered a question a few months back and clearly stated that a SP will be able to throw a certain amount of pitches before starting to tire, and that number will always be the same (assuming fully rested).

Given that statement, it wouldn't appear a pitcher tires more quickly for pitching too much in an inning.

[Marsupilami]

the only thing that can make a SP tired faster are long (rain) delays i think.
havent noticed anything with long innings

[NoOne]

you have to think of it is 2 different jobs -- in what they do on field as well as preperation.

i.e. when a RL RP goes from pen to starting, he doesn't just need a few days off. he needs to work his pitch count up -- regardless of his innate stamina. we don't have to worry about that in ootp, of course. if rested, set position and go.

also, RP get a bonus to stuff in ootp. this simulates the fact they are throwing harder and fewer pitches per outing is likely from the extra exertion.

while they throw the same types of pitches, they do it in different ways and with different constraints due to context. one has to last, one is expecting going all out for no more than ~40pitches. (injury starts sky-rocketing if you go over 40 pitches in 1 inning, 40 accross 2ip more likely, but still not expecting to last long and exerting more due to that fact)

it's like comparing a 2B to SS or LF to RF. think of it like that, and it's not so odd. 2 very distinct positions that that have similarities.

side note: they supposedly adjusted long releif or relief # of pitches per stamina a bit. i have no experience beyond what i read in the patch note on it though.

[Critical Mass]

Makes sense. Thanks.

[Critical Mass]

Ok, to continue, this is either a stupid idea or a genius idea. Either way, its crazy.

Let's say it's Game 7 of the WS. Teams traditionally go with a 3 or 4 man rotation.

So let's say that RHP Smith is the #4 Starter, and is slated to start Game 7. LHP Jones is the normal #5 starter, but has been in the bullpen the entire post season and hasnt been used much the past few games.

What if the game starts, everyone submits lineups, and after one batter, I take out Smith and bring in Jones, whom I secretly and intentionally did not use lately with the purpose of having him go into this game as (virtually) the SP, going 6 innings. Being that the other team has already submitted their lineup vs RHP, the R/L matchup would favor me, unless the other team wants to burn several PH in the first few innings.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Critical Mass

Ok, to continue, this is either a stupid idea or a genius idea. Either way, its crazy.

Let's say it's Game 7 of the WS. Teams traditionally go with a 3 or 4 man rotation.

So let's say that RHP Smith is the #4 Starter, and is slated to start Game 7. LHP Jones is the normal #5 starter, but has been in the bullpen the entire post season and hasnt been used much the past few games.

What if the game starts, everyone submits lineups, and after one batter, I take out Smith and bring in Jones, whom I secretly and intentionally did not use lately with the purpose of having him go into this game as (virtually) the SP, going 6 innings. Being that the other team has already submitted their lineup vs RHP, the R/L matchup would favor me, unless the other team wants to burn several PH in the first few innings.

Jury's still out whether that's a smart or stupid idea. TB has been using it of late with Romo starting some games and then going to guys like Pruitt or someone else for a 5-6 inning "relief" stint. The main reason there is because they want those guys to go more than 18 batters (twice through the lineup), but don't want them facing the top of the other team's lineup a third time through. So you use the opener for 5-6 batters, and then you can use your first "reliever" for 21-22 batters and the only guys he faces a 3rd time are the bottom of the lineup guys.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Jury's still out whether that's a smart or stupid idea. TB has been using it of late with Romo starting some games and then going to guys like Pruitt or someone else for a 5-6 inning "relief" stint. The main reason there is because they want those guys to go more than 18 batters (twice through the lineup), but don't want them facing the top of the other team's lineup a third time through. So you use the opener for 5-6 batters, and then you can use your first "reliever" for 21-22 batters and the only guys he faces a 3rd time are the bottom of the lineup guys.

Another reason why I would like to see a separate setting as far as how "stretched out" a pitcher's arm is. When Romo starts those games in OOTP...he is going to get starter stamina, when he really isn't conditioned for that.

[yawgmoth]

Just to be clear, in OOTP if we want to take someone from the bullpen and make them a starter, it is imperative that their position be changed to SP? That way they have the correct stamina or I guess are using their stamina correctly? If you have a pitcher designated as a reliever but they are in the starting rotation are they going max effort and therefore may not be going as long as they otherwise should? I micromanage my minors and typically need relievers to fill in for injured starters but do not bother changing their position for the 3 or 4 spot starts they may make through the course of the season. Should I?

[Timofmars]

I'm pretty sure the SP/RP role setting doesn't change anything. If they start the game, they will be considered an SP, and use the appropriate Stamina bonus and Stuff penalty for that.

[yawgmoth]

I hope so; it wouldn't make much sense the other way. The guy's stamina is his stamina as long as he knows what situation he is going into.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by yawgmoth

I hope so; it wouldn't make much sense the other way. The guy's stamina is his stamina as long as he knows what situation he is going into.

That doesn't work within the game for a situation like Matt mentioned with Sergio Romo and Tampa Bay. Tampa starts him, but he knows it is only going a normal 1-2 inning appearance for him. So, as a starter, he knows to "pitch like a reliever".

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by Rain King

That doesn't work within the game for a situation like Matt mentioned with Sergio Romo and Tampa Bay. Tampa starts him, but he knows it is only going a normal 1-2 inning appearance for him. So, as a starter, he knows to "pitch like a reliever".

The game will not handle the RL Tampa situation well. If a pitcher starts a game he is treated internally as a SP(able to throw more pitches with a bit less stuff). If a pitcher comes in in relief, even after only 1 or 2 batters, he will be treated internally as a reliever(fewer pitches & better stuff).