Raising The White Flag

[t-bone shuffle]

I've installed today's patch and find that still, when going to the "pre-game" (Lineups, Options and Preview, etc), the game continues to load a lineup inconsistent with what I may (or may not) have set in the team's home. Often times the lineup "prepared" contains such nonsense as having my starting C in LF (no, he's not rated for LF). This remains very aggravating and time consuming, causing me to have to evaluate/re-set the lineup before each game. Just can't believe this is working as intended.

I have tried every variation of manager/gm settings I can find, to see if there's a setting affecting this that I'm missing.

I've been around this game a looooong time and know that it's never been this way previously. Additionally, I feel like I know my way around the various setting options well enough that if in fact there were a "cure" for this I could find it.

I did submit this as a bug after the very first patch, see http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=286601.

So, I give up. If I'm missing a setting, or setting combination, would someone be so kind as to clue me in. It's very hard for me to believe that I'm the only one seeing, and being extremely annoyed by this, which has me wondering if I'm missing something.

If not, would someone in Development group please indicate if this is a bug, which would eventually be fixed, or if this represents an intentional/permanent change?

Any and all help on this is greatly appreciated.

[NoOne]

GM-only? if so this will help you:

Game Settings from menu at top under league name (says "Global settings" on tab once you get there)

check option for "GM-Legacy mode". this will prevent a controlling or high-reputaion coach from usurping your choices.

since you were trying other things to fix proble, re-check you manager control options (in manager's office area) and make sure lineup is not delegated to the coach, nor active roster moves etc... double chekc it all.

[Matt Arnold]

Best way to debug is to at least give screenshots of your various setting pages, or upload league files for us to have a look. But the main things to watch out for:

-Do not disturb flag being set: if so, the AI is in control
-Only acting as, not actually hired: again, ai is in full control
-AI Manager controls lineups: shouldn't let you drag+drop in the lineup page anyways

Otherwise, when you go to a game, the only changes between your default lineups and what shows up there are any subs for tired/injured players (or in spring training, players will tend to sit out more often, so spring games may show weirder lineups). If you're properly hired by the team, not on vacation/do no disturb, then the lineups should come up as you expect them to. If not, as I said, a few screenshots at the very least will help shed some light on what might be happening.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by NoOne

GM-only? if so this will help you:

Game Settings from menu at top under league name (says "Global settings" on tab once you get there)

check option for "GM-Legacy mode". this will prevent a controlling or high-reputaion coach from usurping your choices.

since you were trying other things to fix proble, re-check you manager control options (in manager's office area) and make sure lineup is not delegated to the coach, nor active roster moves etc... double chekc it all.

Thanks, I've done all of the above, double and triple checked...no help. I must be missing something, but regardless this is a change from the way it's worked in all previous versions.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Best way to debug is to at least give screenshots of your various setting pages, or upload league files for us to have a look. But the main things to watch out for:

-Do not disturb flag being set: if so, the AI is in control
-Only acting as, not actually hired: again, ai is in full control
-AI Manager controls lineups: shouldn't let you drag+drop in the lineup page anyways

Otherwise, when you go to a game, the only changes between your default lineups and what shows up there are any subs for tired/injured players (or in spring training, players will tend to sit out more often, so spring games may show weirder lineups). If you're properly hired by the team, not on vacation/do no disturb, then the lineups should come up as you expect them to. If not, as I said, a few screenshots at the very least will help shed some light on what might be happening.

Thanks Matt. I believe I've discovered the issue/problem. In all previous versions it's been my practice to leave a few lineup spots "open/un-filled" as follows. I do this intentionally for positions where I don't want a specific starter. A game day decision as it were.

Always in the past, the pre-game options/lineups would load this lineup as is, empty spots and all.

Now what I get at startup is a completely filled lineup, of someone's choice.

I'm about as certain as I can be that this is not a settings issue. I've tried and double checked all options in both the game you see here (imported from 18) and in newly loaded mlb roster sets as well. Also, FWIW, I'm about certain this changed with the first patch.

Let me know if you'd like more info from me.

Again, thanks for your efforts.

[t-bone shuffle]

Here are the current settings for the game in question.

[NoOne]

even though not exactly as you want it.. just plop some names in the empty slots... still have to drag and drop anyway on game day lineups... but you don't have to re-do everything.

actually, even less wor 1/x times... because sometimes the guy you have there will be the choice... but same effort to drag someone over a pre-filled slot in lineup at game start or if it is empty as it was in the past. don't leave empty slots and no problems - in the meantime.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by NoOne

even though not exactly as you want it.. just plop some names in the empty slots... still have to drag and drop anyway on game day lineups... but you don't have to re-do everything.

actually, even less wor 1/x times... because sometimes the guy you have there will be the choice... but same effort to drag someone over a pre-filled slot in lineup at game start or if it is empty as it was in the past. don't leave empty slots and no problems - in the meantime.

Thanks. I'm fully aware of the options to override the issue.

What I was hoping to glean from this was an understanding if this is a bug, or an intentional change. I'm still leaning/hoping it's a bug. Partly because I do this with minor league teams as well, and I almost never see my minor league managers use an unreasonable lineup despite the empty spots. In fact I do this at these levels specifically to monitor what the manager does/thinks.

Regardless, I'll let it go now. I'll continue to hope that this is temporary, but I'm experienced enough to know that when the Dev's go silent on a little matter (and it is a little matter, relatively) such as this, continuing to push has no consequences.

Thanks again. Any other input, from any source, would be appreciated.

[italyprof]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Best way to debug is to at least give screenshots of your various setting pages, or upload league files for us to have a look. But the main things to watch out for:

-Do not disturb flag being set: if so, the AI is in control
-Only acting as, not actually hired: again, ai is in full control
-AI Manager controls lineups: shouldn't let you drag+drop in the lineup page anyways

Otherwise, when you go to a game, the only changes between your default lineups and what shows up there are any subs for tired/injured players (or in spring training, players will tend to sit out more often, so spring games may show weirder lineups). If you're properly hired by the team, not on vacation/do no disturb, then the lineups should come up as you expect them to. If not, as I said, a few screenshots at the very least will help shed some light on what might be happening.

What do I have to do to be able to paste screenshots on this site? I have never been able to do it . When some people here have tried to explain it, they might as well have been speaking in martian . This is the only website on the internet I can't paste anything onto. Someone please explain how everyone here does it. Thanks.

[bigd51]

Originally Posted by italyprof

What do I have to do to be able to paste screenshots on this site? I have never been able to do it . When some people here have tried to explain it, they might as well have been speaking in martian . This is the only website on the internet I can't paste anything onto. Someone please explain how everyone here does it. Thanks.

1. Press the Print Screen (PrtScr) button at the top of your keyboard. This will take a screenshot.

2. Open Microsoft Paint and click the Paste button in the top left corner.

3. Edit/Crop the screenshot however you want, then save it to your computer.

4. Upload the photo here as an attachment to your post.

[bigd51]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Thanks Matt. I believe I've discovered the issue/problem. In all previous versions it's been my practice to leave a few lineup spots "open/un-filled" as follows. I do this intentionally for positions where I don't want a specific starter. A game day decision as it were.

Always in the past, the pre-game options/lineups would load this lineup as is, empty spots and all.

Now what I get at startup is a completely filled lineup, of someone's choice.

I'm about as certain as I can be that this is not a settings issue. I've tried and double checked all options in both the game you see here (imported from 18) and in newly loaded mlb roster sets as well. Also, FWIW, I'm about certain this changed with the first patch.

Let me know if you'd like more info from me.

Again, thanks for your efforts.

Just curious, t-bone... where did you get your team logo sets from? I like those glossy circular ones...

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by bigd51

Just curious, t-bone... where did you get your team logo sets from? I like those glossy circular ones...

I have no idea. I honestly wasn't aware that they we're unusual.

The only thing I can imagine is that they were loaded in a previous version. This particular league originated in OOTP 15, 2014 mlb roster set. It's been imported though each version since, so anything is possible.

Sorry to not be more help.

[tklem321]

You can get Justafan's glossy logo set, and a bunch of other sets, here:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=266236

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=185295

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=171986

[t-bone shuffle]

So, this is maddening to me.

Particularly when I'm in Spring Training and I'm trying to look at players other than those deemed by the game as starters. Requires completely emptying the lineup.

All lineups and depth cleared. No luck with custom or 7 day lineups either.

Please, please tell me this is not working as intended. All previous versions did not do this. if nothing else, how about an option to clear the lineup as in the team lineup, setup screen??

I'm going back to 18 otherwise.

[Dyzalot]

I don't understand why you aren't setting your lineups in the lineup screen instead of leaving spots open and then filling them at the start of the game. What advantage were you getting?

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I don't understand why you aren't setting your lineups in the lineup screen instead of leaving spots open and then filling them at the start of the game. What advantage were you getting?

Thanks for the interest. Not looking for an advantage.

Simply put, for the ease of day to day lineup control.

The longer explanation is that I play out all of my games (yes, ST games too). I don't know about you, but most of my teams will have only 5 to 7 what I would consider everyday starters, regardless of opposing P handedness. So the (now disappeared) empty lineup spots allowed me to fill those as I wish, daily/game to game, based upon a multitude of things (opposing SP, stats, rest, platoon, gut instinct to name a few). And also likely adjust the batting order itself.

It's even worse for Spring Training. I'll usually carry 20 to 25 batters into ST, and early on, none of my "regulars" will even play. Formerly, I would empty my lineups (Team Page/Lineups tab - so we're clear) at this time and build the lineup I want in the Play Game/Lineup & SP tab for each game.

Also, just FYI, I have covered every option of on/off for lineup control in all setting options to no avail.

I honestly cant believe I'm an outlier here, but maybe so. All I know is that I've been doing it this way for as long as I can remember, and I go all the way back. If it must be, it must be. But it would be nice to hear something from the Dev's either here, or here, http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar....php?t=286601W, where I posted it in the Bug Forum on March 21.

Obviously, I can do these things still, but this backward step makes it much more tedious, time consuming, and honestly challenges my thoughts/creativity when constructing the days' lineup. And additionally, it's almost always made worse by what the game/AI thinks my lineup should look like.

I hope that this clarifies it a bit. Again, thanks for your interest.

[Matt Arnold]

It's a tough argument - should the AI fill out the lineup the same as if you were to sim the game, or follow things 100% as you specified and force you to fill it in every time? I honestly don't know which more people would like overall.

If you insert a custom lineup does it still try to fill it out? I'd have to double check, but I believe in that case it should just paste in the lineup and not do any other swaps. If that is the case, you should be able to save whatever part of the lineup you want to set and then it's only a few steps to "clear out" the lineup in that case. If not, that may be a bug we can look into.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

It's a tough argument - should the AI fill out the lineup the same as if you were to sim the game, or follow things 100% as you specified and force you to fill it in every time? I honestly don't know which more people would like overall.

If you insert a custom lineup does it still try to fill it out? I'd have to double check, but I believe in that case it should just paste in the lineup and not do any other swaps. If that is the case, you should be able to save whatever part of the lineup you want to set and then it's only a few steps to "clear out" the lineup in that case. If not, that may be a bug we can look into.

Thanks for the quick response Matt.

Regarding your first paragraph, I suppose if I were a simmer, I would not leave the various lineup options empty. FWIW, I do (incomplete lineups) this with my MiLB teams and for the most part the AI manager does just fine filling in (I will always have my depth charts filled here, btw)

As for custom lineups, the answer is no. I've tried saving custom lineups with a few spots empty, and the entire lineup empty. It will show these as saved, but will not load them as such and reverts back to it's own choice for the full lineup.

I guess I just don't understand why this changed after all previous versions did not behave this way.

It's not a complete killer for me, obviously, but it has greatly affected my enjoyment level. But I'm just one, and I understand how things work.

Let me know if you need more from me. Feel free to PM if you'd like.

Thanks again!

[t-bone shuffle]

For "fixing" this. I, for one, really appreciate it.

[Dyzalot]

I still don't understand the "advantage" to doing this over just having a set lineup and making changes on a daily basis. Is it more work to insert someone into a lineup as opposed to replacing someone in a lineup? What am I missing?