Depth chart and substitution management

Sabreredleg · 04-29-2018, 05:34 PM

I'm trying to figure out how to better set up my depth charts to avoid some strange assignments that I've seen in the past in an online league. (Keep in mind I'm talking about online leagues with 7-day sims for these questions).

Let's say I have a player (let's call him "Bob") who I typically want to start at DH but also occasionally play catcher when the everyday starter needs a rest. If I put Bob in my depth chart as the primary DH and backup catcher, he will never start at catcher in my experience. If there are no other designated backup catchers, some other bench player with no catcher ability will be chosen.

I can work around this with 7 day lineups and plan to rest my catcher every 3-4 games and start Bob in his place, but that still doesn't always work. After a long extra inning game, the everyday catcher might need a break on a day he's scheduled to start, but Bob's in the lineup at DH, so I still get some random bench player at catcher.

Anyone have any tips about how to setup the depth chart to make Bob the preferred choice? Hmm. What if I assign Bob as the backup catcher and backup DH, then leave the DH spot open in my lineup, and let the AI fill it at game time?

Similarly, is there a way to have more control over mid-game substitutions? For example, let's say my starting CF leaves with an injury. My preference would be to have my LF slide over to CF, and bring my 4th OF in to LF. But I've never seen that happen. Any suggestions on how to set depth charts to encourage that?

The most extreme case would be where Bob, my backup catcher, is in the game as DH and the starting catcher gets injured. If I don't have another catcher on the roster, my preference would be to move Bob to catcher and lose the DH spot for the remainder of the game. Having the pitcher bat seems less bad than having the backup IF play catcher.

italyprof · 04-29-2018, 06:41 PM

Disengage lineups from depth charts and you can use starters as backups at another oosition.

italyprof · 04-29-2018, 06:48 PM

Disengage lineups from depth charts and you can use starters as backups at another oosition.

Sabreredleg · 04-29-2018, 06:52 PM

I can assign them, yes. But I find they don't actually get put into the lineup.

Orcin · 04-29-2018, 06:56 PM

I would set the player as backup catcher (when starter tired) and backup DH (every 2nd or 3rd day). I would also set another player to be the backup DH when the starter is tired.

The reason being that I wouldn't want my backup catcher to be the DH and lose my DH if I need him to go into the game. Playing every 3rd day would keep his bat sharp but still leave him as the preferred backup to the regular catcher, and there would be a reduced chance that he would be needed as the catcher while assigned to the DH spot.

NoOne · 04-29-2018, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by italyprof

Disengage lineups from depth charts and you can use starters as backups at another oosition.

do you mean empty the lineups? neat workaround if that works. but, do you have to deal with manager choices for order, right? or, is it finally working properly with depth chart in '19?

7-day lineups can do it, if you sim 7 days at a time or less.

the drawback may be that they don't recover and fatigue when tehy play as a dh. i think it doesn't reduce, but no gain.

if you have enough lefties in schedule, could switch C/DH for vs L and vs R.. but the vs R guy will eventualyl get tired and you'll need a sub.

for the reasons orcin mentioned you'll want 3 catchers on roster. it's not an extra player because C/DH are 2 of 9 starters no matter what. you'll still have 4 bench players just like normal and 1 being a 3rd catcher is wise.

i did this a few years ago when Catchers were being pumped out with amazing ratings. it took 2x the effort as normal to avoid the primary guy getting tired and constant swapping on depth chart or ~27 7-day lineup changes -- tedious nonsense. so, i only did it while i had those 2 amazing catchers and avoided it after that. in 60 years of '18, i only found one truly well-rated offensive catcher that wasn't incredibly terrible in the field. he only had ~70/100 power with ~80/100 cont... infinitely better than any other catcher i saw in 60 years, lol.

bwburke94 · 04-30-2018, 01:32 PM

Orcin's solution is best, and it's what I've advocated for in the past.

Set the backup catcher to be the backup DH on the depth chart, but use 7-day lineups to alternate the backup catcher with a third guy at DH.

joefromchicago · 05-01-2018, 10:08 AM

How do you handle this kind of situation? That's easy. You do what any major league team would do. You get a third catcher.

A manager won't put his sole back-up catcher into the DH slot because the DH slot is too important to give up in the event that the back-up catcher is needed in the field. And a manager won't use his sole back-up catcher at all unless it's absolutely necessary, because it's the one position on the field that practically no one else can play except another catcher.

I understand that you want to carry only two catchers and you want both of them to play all the time and to back each other up, but that's a square that can't be circled. If you don't want the game to use some outfielder as your back-up catcher, then your best option is to get a third catcher.

NoOne · 05-01-2018, 11:35 AM

platoon by hand or ensure they are splitting 81/81 and spaced out properly with 7-day lineup and you may only need to sub the catcher a few times - if at all.

a 20+ game stretch alternating each day may tire both out - never tried. in that case you'd rather have 1 tired player to sub than 2. just make sure one starts at C a few more times inthat stretch so the other doesn't get "tired" over those 20+ games.

if you only use that 3rd catcher 2-10games, it won't matter if he's a poopy hitter if he only gets 30ab or less in the entire season. you'll be gaining 20-30games of your catcher(s) starting that will far offset that minor cost.

Clovidequano Dovatha · 05-01-2018, 12:12 PM

And what if you don't have the DH available in a league, either by choice or not? What then? I don't play with the DH at all if I can possibly avoid it, and won't, voluntarily. I strongly dislike its presence in the game for various reasons. By that, I mean the real-world use of it, at least. So I eliminate it in my OOTP games if and whenever possible, no matter what. CD out.

P.S. I prefer 154-game schedules whenever possible too, by the way. CD out.

bwburke94 · 05-02-2018, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovidequano Dovatha

And what if you don't have the DH available in a league, either by choice or not? What then? I don't play with the DH at all if I can possibly avoid it, and won't, voluntarily. I strongly dislike its presence in the game for various reasons. By that, I mean the real-world use of it, at least. So I eliminate it in my OOTP games if and whenever possible, no matter what. CD out.

P.S. I prefer 154-game schedules whenever possible too, by the way. CD out.

You said "CD out" twice. BW out.

Sabreredleg · 05-03-2018, 11:08 PM

I appreciate the responses, but the mostly do not address my actual questions. Perhaps I skewed the conversation by using an example. Yes, if I want to catchers in the lineup I can carry a third catcher. Yes, I can micromanage each day's lineup. This isn't a question about managing catchers though. It's about managing lineups and substitutions. And remember, I'm talking specifically about weekly sims for an online league. Stuff happens that you don't plan for, and I want the AI to react as closely as I would.

So, to frame it more generally:

Player A is my starter position X.
Player B is my starter at position Y and backup at position A.
Player C is a bench player who is my backup at position B.

In my experience, if I set the depth chart as described above, when player A sits, B will start at position Y, and C (or perhaps someone else) will start at position X. What I want to happen when A sits is for B to start at position X and C to start at position Y. Has anyone found a reliable way to make that happen?

Juggernt · 05-04-2018, 09:12 AM

I have a similar problem with a player that I want to play every day, but half the time at 1B half the time at LF. Then there are two different other players, one of whom I want to play 1B when my guy is playing LF and another to play LF when my guy is playing 1B. I don't think making the primary guy backup at both works out to get him in the lineup every day.

italyprof · 05-05-2018, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

do you mean empty the lineups? neat workaround if that works. but, do you have to deal with manager choices for order, right? or, is it finally working properly with depth chart in '19?

7-day lineups can do it, if you sim 7 days at a time or less.

the drawback may be that they don't recover and fatigue when tehy play as a dh. i think it doesn't reduce, but no gain.

if you have enough lefties in schedule, could switch C/DH for vs L and vs R.. but the vs R guy will eventualyl get tired and you'll need a sub.

for the reasons orcin mentioned you'll want 3 catchers on roster. it's not an extra player because C/DH are 2 of 9 starters no matter what. you'll still have 4 bench players just like normal and 1 being a 3rd catcher is wise.

i did this a few years ago when Catchers were being pumped out with amazing ratings. it took 2x the effort as normal to avoid the primary guy getting tired and constant swapping on depth chart or ~27 7-day lineup changes -- tedious nonsense. so, i only did it while i had those 2 amazing catchers and avoided it after that. in 60 years of '18, i only found one truly well-rated offensive catcher that wasn't incredibly terrible in the field. he only had ~70/100 power with ~80/100 cont... infinitely better than any other catcher i saw in 60 years, lol.

No don't empty. There is a function under the Actions arrow on your lineups that allows you to delink the lineups from the substitutions. In other words, normally when you move a player from being the main player on a substitutions hierarchy to being the sub, and move the sub forward, the lineup itself changes. Disengage this and you can then have regular starters as the main backup. But I agree with, I think Orcin suggested (sorry if I am wrong here) to set the backups (regulars at another position) to start every third or fourth day or whatever you want. That guarantees they will be in the lineup at that position.

04-29-2018, 05:34 PM	#1
Sabreredleg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Ridgefield, WA Posts: 18	Depth chart and substitution management I'm trying to figure out how to better set up my depth charts to avoid some strange assignments that I've seen in the past in an online league. (Keep in mind I'm talking about online leagues with 7-day sims for these questions). Let's say I have a player (let's call him "Bob") who I typically want to start at DH but also occasionally play catcher when the everyday starter needs a rest. If I put Bob in my depth chart as the primary DH and backup catcher, he will never start at catcher in my experience. If there are no other designated backup catchers, some other bench player with no catcher ability will be chosen. I can work around this with 7 day lineups and plan to rest my catcher every 3-4 games and start Bob in his place, but that still doesn't always work. After a long extra inning game, the everyday catcher might need a break on a day he's scheduled to start, but Bob's in the lineup at DH, so I still get some random bench player at catcher. Anyone have any tips about how to setup the depth chart to make Bob the preferred choice? Hmm. What if I assign Bob as the backup catcher and backup DH, then leave the DH spot open in my lineup, and let the AI fill it at game time? Similarly, is there a way to have more control over mid-game substitutions? For example, let's say my starting CF leaves with an injury. My preference would be to have my LF slide over to CF, and bring my 4th OF in to LF. But I've never seen that happen. Any suggestions on how to set depth charts to encourage that? The most extreme case would be where Bob, my backup catcher, is in the game as DH and the starting catcher gets injured. If I don't have another catcher on the roster, my preference would be to move Bob to catcher and lose the DH spot for the remainder of the game. Having the pitcher bat seems less bad than having the backup IF play catcher.

05-01-2018, 10:08 AM	#8
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,726	How do you handle this kind of situation? That's easy. You do what any major league team would do. You get a third catcher. A manager won't put his sole back-up catcher into the DH slot because the DH slot is too important to give up in the event that the back-up catcher is needed in the field. And a manager won't use his sole back-up catcher at all unless it's absolutely necessary, because it's the one position on the field that practically no one else can play except another catcher. I understand that you want to carry only two catchers and you want both of them to play all the time and to back each other up, but that's a square that can't be circled. If you don't want the game to use some outfielder as your back-up catcher, then your best option is to get a third catcher. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules

05-01-2018, 12:12 PM	#10
Clovidequano Dovatha Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Somewhere in the United States of America on God's Earth Posts: 7,181	And what if you don't have the DH available in a league, either by choice or not? What then? I don't play with the DH at all if I can possibly avoid it, and won't, voluntarily. I strongly dislike its presence in the game for various reasons. By that, I mean the real-world use of it, at least. So I eliminate it in my OOTP games if and whenever possible, no matter what. CD out. P.S. I prefer 154-game schedules whenever possible too, by the way. CD out. Last edited by Clovidequano Dovatha; 05-01-2018 at 12:15 PM.

04-29-2018, 06:41 PM	#2
italyprof All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,032	Disengage lineups from depth charts and you can use starters as backups at another oosition.

04-29-2018, 06:48 PM	#3
italyprof All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,032	Disengage lineups from depth charts and you can use starters as backups at another oosition.

04-29-2018, 06:52 PM	#4
Sabreredleg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Ridgefield, WA Posts: 18	I can assign them, yes. But I find they don't actually get put into the lineup.

04-29-2018, 06:56 PM	#5
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,884	I would set the player as backup catcher (when starter tired) and backup DH (every 2nd or 3rd day). I would also set another player to be the backup DH when the starter is tired. The reason being that I wouldn't want my backup catcher to be the DH and lose my DH if I need him to go into the game. Playing every 3rd day would keep his bat sharp but still leave him as the preferred backup to the regular catcher, and there would be a reduced chance that he would be needed as the catcher while assigned to the DH spot.

04-30-2018, 01:32 PM	#7
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,523	Orcin's solution is best, and it's what I've advocated for in the past. Set the backup catcher to be the backup DH on the depth chart, but use 7-day lineups to alternate the backup catcher with a third guy at DH.

05-01-2018, 11:35 AM	#9
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	platoon by hand or ensure they are splitting 81/81 and spaced out properly with 7-day lineup and you may only need to sub the catcher a few times - if at all. a 20+ game stretch alternating each day may tire both out - never tried. in that case you'd rather have 1 tired player to sub than 2. just make sure one starts at C a few more times inthat stretch so the other doesn't get "tired" over those 20+ games. if you only use that 3rd catcher 2-10games, it won't matter if he's a poopy hitter if he only gets 30ab or less in the entire season. you'll be gaining 20-30games of your catcher(s) starting that will far offset that minor cost.

05-03-2018, 11:08 PM	#12
Sabreredleg Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Ridgefield, WA Posts: 18	I appreciate the responses, but the mostly do not address my actual questions. Perhaps I skewed the conversation by using an example. Yes, if I want to catchers in the lineup I can carry a third catcher. Yes, I can micromanage each day's lineup. This isn't a question about managing catchers though. It's about managing lineups and substitutions. And remember, I'm talking specifically about weekly sims for an online league. Stuff happens that you don't plan for, and I want the AI to react as closely as I would. So, to frame it more generally: Player A is my starter position X. Player B is my starter at position Y and backup at position A. Player C is a bench player who is my backup at position B. In my experience, if I set the depth chart as described above, when player A sits, B will start at position Y, and C (or perhaps someone else) will start at position X. What I want to happen when A sits is for B to start at position X and C to start at position Y. Has anyone found a reliable way to make that happen?

05-04-2018, 09:12 AM	#13
Juggernt Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 357	I have a similar problem with a player that I want to play every day, but half the time at 1B half the time at LF. Then there are two different other players, one of whom I want to play 1B when my guy is playing LF and another to play LF when my guy is playing 1B. I don't think making the primary guy backup at both works out to get him in the lineup every day.