All things being equal, what advantage does a pitcher with 6 pitches have over a pitcher with 3?

torpidbeaver · 04-21-2018, 02:31 AM

If any?

Same raw attributes, stamina, etc, except Pitcher A has fastball, slider, changeup, while Pitcher B has the same-rated fastball slider changeup, but also has 3 additional pitches (rated lower than the first three pitches).

Does pitcher B perform better than pitcher A?

Mr. Marlin · 04-21-2018, 07:52 PM

I was looking into this a few versions ago. The results i was seeing led me to believe the type of pitches they have is incidental. I think that is just window dressing. However the number and quality of pitches they have makes a difference. A pitcher with three strong pitches will fare better in the long run than one with two and a mediocre third or fourth pitch. So what it comes down to is not the type or total number of pitches but the number of better than average pitches they have.

torpidbeaver · 04-22-2018, 01:56 PM

So, then, is it possible that a pitcher with 3 above-average pitches and 3 below-average pitches is going to be worse than a pitcher with only 3 above-average pitches?

In other words, having those extra pitches in his arsenal could be a detriment because, since he has them, he'll use them, and they're worse pitches than the 3 above-average ones he'd otherwise use?

I would guess that the threat of an additional pitch (or three) would help keep the batter off-balance? Yeah, I guess I can see both sides of this... if a batter is simply reacting, then it shouldn't matter how many different types of pitches he has to potentially hit, only the quality.

Timofmars · 04-24-2018, 10:30 AM

I think more pitches can only help in the game. If you mess around with a player's pitching in the editor, it shows you his expected hits/HRs/BBs/Ks. Each additional pitch added improves his stuff by a less amount, unless of course you make the new pitch better than others. If you add really weak pitches, it just has very little effect at all on the stats.

Rain King · 04-24-2018, 11:35 AM

The game doesn't really punish pitchers for bad pitches. I think the idea is that they just don't use them much if they are below average quality for their level.

joefromchicago · 04-25-2018, 11:39 AM

I might be wrong, but I believe that a starter's Stuff rating is based, in part, on his entire pitch repertoire, while a reliever's Stuff rating is based on his top two pitches. So having six good pitches will help a starter, but any pitch above two won't do a reliever any good. You can test this by switching a pitcher's position from starter to reliever (or vice versa) and see how his Stuff rating changes.

04-21-2018, 02:31 AM	#1
torpidbeaver Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 389	All things being equal, what advantage does a pitcher with 6 pitches have over a pitcher with 3? If any? Same raw attributes, stamina, etc, except Pitcher A has fastball, slider, changeup, while Pitcher B has the same-rated fastball slider changeup, but also has 3 additional pitches (rated lower than the first three pitches). Does pitcher B perform better than pitcher A?

04-25-2018, 11:39 AM	#6
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,713	I might be wrong, but I believe that a starter's Stuff rating is based, in part, on his entire pitch repertoire, while a reliever's Stuff rating is based on his top two pitches. So having six good pitches will help a starter, but any pitch above two won't do a reliever any good. You can test this by switching a pitcher's position from starter to reliever (or vice versa) and see how his Stuff rating changes. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules

04-21-2018, 07:52 PM	#2
Mr. Marlin All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,276	I was looking into this a few versions ago. The results i was seeing led me to believe the type of pitches they have is incidental. I think that is just window dressing. However the number and quality of pitches they have makes a difference. A pitcher with three strong pitches will fare better in the long run than one with two and a mediocre third or fourth pitch. So what it comes down to is not the type or total number of pitches but the number of better than average pitches they have.

04-22-2018, 01:56 PM	#3
torpidbeaver Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 389	So, then, is it possible that a pitcher with 3 above-average pitches and 3 below-average pitches is going to be worse than a pitcher with only 3 above-average pitches? In other words, having those extra pitches in his arsenal could be a detriment because, since he has them, he'll use them, and they're worse pitches than the 3 above-average ones he'd otherwise use? I would guess that the threat of an additional pitch (or three) would help keep the batter off-balance? Yeah, I guess I can see both sides of this... if a batter is simply reacting, then it shouldn't matter how many different types of pitches he has to potentially hit, only the quality.

04-24-2018, 10:30 AM	#4
Timofmars Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 251	I think more pitches can only help in the game. If you mess around with a player's pitching in the editor, it shows you his expected hits/HRs/BBs/Ks. Each additional pitch added improves his stuff by a less amount, unless of course you make the new pitch better than others. If you add really weak pitches, it just has very little effect at all on the stats.

04-24-2018, 11:35 AM	#5
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,141	The game doesn't really punish pitchers for bad pitches. I think the idea is that they just don't use them much if they are below average quality for their level.