Help me understand Sabermetric manager style

[seven]

National League managers in OOTP run by the AI system and listed as having a Sabermetric style (this year, at least the Cubs and Nationals are in that category), appear to always put the pitcher in the number 8 hitting spot. I've seen that in OOTP 18 and again in 19. But in real MLB games this strategy seems to be much more rare. In the Cubs real opening day game today, for example, the pitcher was in the 9th spot.

If I want my simulated games with AI managers to be more realistic (i.e., avoid putting the pitcher in the 8th spot), what is the next closest alternative style to Sabermetric that I can assign to an AI manager?

[Orcin]

I will offer an educated guess... tactician.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Sabermetric managers do things like pull their shut out throwing ace starter after 68 pitches so the bullpen can blow a five run lead. (see Kapler, Gabe)

[murderleg]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Sabermetric managers do things like pull their shut out throwing ace starter after 68 pitches so the bullpen can blow a five run lead. (see Kapler, Gabe)

Stole my line haha.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by murderleg

stole my line haha.

[drksd4848]

Sabermetrics:

Nerds with computers in the front office, sucking every single ounce of humanity out of the game by crunching every single number they can find, then telling the team figurehead (read: a modern day manager, like Aaron Boone) what to do.

Thanks to sabermetric nerds, rather than have good old easy to understand stats like batting average, slugging percentage, on base percentage, we have unintelligible stats like:

VORP
WAR
Zone Ratings
WHIP
OPS

I'd like to add a few more. How about these ratings:

Sacrifice Hits + Innings Thrown. It is impressive when a player leads the league in this catagory.

HERP rating: How successful a player is when he hits the strip club after the game is over.

Catches + Runs scored + Assists + Putouts

The Marlins are loaded with a roster full of players with rating.

And the one stat that sums up Sabermetrics entirely:
Dropped flyballs + Unassisted putouts / sacrifices Made + Base-on-balls

I forgot to add Sabermetrics to my "What's Wrong with Baseball" post.

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Sabermetrics:

Nerds with computers in the front office, sucking every single ounce of humanity out of the game by crunching every single number they can find, then telling the team figurehead (read: a modern day manager, like Aaron Boone) what to do.

Thanks to sabermetric nerds, rather than have good old easy to understand stats like batting average, slugging percentage, on base percentage, we have unintelligible stats like:

VORP
WAR
Zone Ratings
WHIP
OPS

I'd like to add a few more. How about these ratings:

Sacrifice Hits + Innings Thrown. It is impressive when a player leads the league in this catagory.

HERP rating: How successful a player is when he hits the strip club after the game is over.

Catches + Runs scored + Assists + Putouts

The Marlins are loaded with a roster full of players with rating.

And the one stat that sums up Sabermetrics entirely:
Dropped flyballs + Unassisted putouts / sacrifices Made + Base-on-balls

I forgot to add Sabermetrics to my "What's Wrong with Baseball" post.

Cute but I could not disagree more. I am as old school as anyone, started following MLB in 1966. I read the book Smart Baseball last year and wow it certainly was illuminating. I love the new stats and I agree that stats like Wins for pitchers are quite misleading. Read the book and let me know what you think.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Actually there's nothing advanced at all about WHIP. The math is simple enough you can eyeball it.

For what it's worth, the all leader in WHIP is HOFer Addie Joss.

[drksd4848]

Old timers will say that WHIP and OPS are actually kind of useful. I guueesss so.

Sabermetrics are great... for COMPUTER GAMES. The fact that you can find every possible stat in OOTP is fun. But in the real world, PEOPLE play baseball, not numbers. Take the human element out of the game, then what's the point.

Nothing beats the eye-test. Nerd stat me all you want.

Here's a stat that basically sums up Sabermetrics:

Sacrifice flys + Unassisted putouts / Caught stealing + striKe outs. That number has been pretty high in MLB over the last decade.

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Old timers will say that WHIP and OPS are actually kind of useful. I guueesss so.

Sabermetrics are great... for COMPUTER GAMES. The fact that you can find every possible stat in OOTP is fun. But in the real world, PEOPLE play baseball, not numbers.

Nothing beats the eye-test. You can nerd stat me all you want.

Here's a stat that basically sums up Sabermetrics:

Sacrifice flys + Unassisted putouts / Caught stealing + striKe outs.

I know you are just "baiting" us, but ok, I will bite! Have you noticed the extreme defensive shifts being used in baseball today? That is due to sabermatrics style stats. There are computers in dugouts because of these stats so yes the game on the field has changed and does rely on these numbers. Believe what you want but the proof is right there in the game itself.

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I know you are just "baiting" us, but ok, I will bite! Have you noticed the extreme defensive shifts being used in baseball today? That is due to sabermatrics style stats. There are computers in dugouts because of these stats so yes the game on the field has changed and does rely on these numbers. Believe what you want but the proof is right there in the game itself.

Nooo. I don't mean to bait anyone. I'm just poking fun. A lot of people here are very passionate about baseball and OOTP. All I try to do is inject humor here and there. Maybe get a smile or two. In no way do I mean to start a forum torch war. I hope for a discussion.

We are all friends here!

Actually, funny you mention the shift. Another thing that gets under my skin (thank you Joe Maddon).

- New rule: No more than TWO infielders on each side of the infield. You can position them anyway you want, but they can't go past 2nd base. If you violate the shift, a balk is called and each runner moves up a base

Thanks to sabermetrics, the infield shift has become absurd. And I can't wait for: This infield shift is brought to you by GEICO. Think your insurance is headed out to Left Field? Shift your coverage over to GEICO. They've got all the bases covered!

[Mariner and Giants Fan]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Nooo. I don't mean to bait anyone. I'm just poking fun. A lot of people here are very passionate about baseball and OOTP. All I try to do is inject humor here and there. Maybe get a smile or two.

Actually, funny you mention the shift. Another thing that gets under my skin (thank you Joe Maddon).

- New rule: No more than TWO infielders on each side of the infield. You can position them anyway you want, but they can't go past 2nd base.

Thanks to sabermetrics, the infield shift has become absurd.

I believe that one of the reasons this shift works is because most all of the hitters are trying to pull the ball to hit with power. Back in the day (1960's thru 80's) allot of hitters would have killed these shifts by going the opposite way, don't you think? Oh and I do appreciate your humor 😉

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I believe that one of the reasons this shift works is because most all of the hitters are trying to pull the ball to hit with power. Back in the day (1960's thru 80's) allot of hitters would have killed these shifts by going the opposite way, don't you think? Oh and I do appreciate your humor 😉

And I appreciate the debate

[JaBurns]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I believe that one of the reasons this shift works is because most all of the hitters are trying to pull the ball to hit with power. Back in the day (1960's thru 80's) allot of hitters would have killed these shifts by going the opposite way, don't you think? Oh and I do appreciate your humor 😉

Agree totally, think Wee Willie Keller: “Hit ‘em where they ain’t”.

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Mariner and Giants Fan

I believe that one of the reasons this shift works is because most all of the hitters are trying to pull the ball to hit with power. Back in the day (1960's thru 80's) allot of hitters would have killed these shifts by going the opposite way, don't you think? Oh and I do appreciate your humor ��

Fair point!

There was the Williams shift. Ted would say he'd try to inside out the ball to beat it. In short, he'd use his brain and adjust. Imagine, modern day players would have to adapt instead of shoot up with HGH and try to smash it over every ones head! Smart hitters could beat it. Dumb hitters. Dumb hitters will have their career end.

BTW, I don't pretend that my ideas perfect. They are loaded with holes, or off the wall! Or out to Left Field

Look, ideas aside, I think we can all agree, MLB needs to think outside the box to recapture the magic. The other sports are eating its lunch. They have no one to blame but themselves.