Looking for quietly excellent historical teams

subtle · 01-03-2018, 11:20 AM

I was alive for the "silent dynasty" of the Indians in the 90s and wondered what other teams from history would make for good teams for importing to a league. Are there other franchises from past decades that were always really solid but were lost to history because they couldn't make it to the world series or missed the playoffs because of being in a division with a historically good team?

Another example would be the '69 Cubs who fell behind the Miracle Mets at the end of the season but had 4 future Hall of Famers on the roster.

TheMaus2 · 01-03-2018, 11:59 AM

2001 Oakland A's, perhaps?

sprague · 01-03-2018, 02:33 PM

How about the post 45 Red Sox. Only went to one world series, but they had more than just Ted Williams, there was a lot of firepower on those teams...only the Yankees had them overpowered in depth those years. Cleveland was also a very good ball club during that period.

msupoke · 01-03-2018, 04:17 PM

1994 Astros.

Curve Ball Dave · 01-03-2018, 04:23 PM

Late 70s/early 80s Expos.

joefromchicago · 01-04-2018, 09:47 AM

1905-08 Pittsburgh Pirates: Over a four-year span, the Pirates averaged 94.5 wins per season (a .614 win percentage), culminating in a 98-win season in 1908. And what did they end up with? Bupkus. Four straight second-place finishes, despite having Honus Wagner, arguably the best all-around player in the major leagues. Their problem: not a whole lot of support from all the guys on the team not named Honus Wagner, especially the pitching staff, which consisted of Vic Willis and a bunch of people nobody has ever heard of. The Bucs finally broke through in 1909, but had to win 110 games to do it.

1963-65 Chicago White Sox: Averaged 95.7 wins per season (.590 win percentage), which earned them three consecutive second-place finishes. A team built around solid pitching and defense, their problem was that they lacked that one star hitter that they could build their offense around. Really, how are you going to catch the Yankees when your best batter is Floyd Robinson?

1950-53 Cleveland Indians: Averaged 92.5 wins per season (.601 win percentage). A Hall-of-Fame starting rotation (Early Wynn, Bob Lemon, Bob Feller, joined by Mike Garcia) and an explosive offense got them nothing better than runner-up finishes in three of those four seasons. Their problem: the New York Yankees. They eventually put it all together in 1954 when they racked up 111 wins.

1932-33 Pittsburgh Pirates: Averaged 86.5 wins per season (.561 win pct.) and finished just out of the money both years. Three teams consistently battled for the NL title in the 1930s: the Giants, the Cubs, and the Pirates. The Pirates are the only one that didn't win a pennant in that decade, despite having the Waner brothers, Pie Traynor, and Arky Vaughn on their clubs. Their problem: pitching. It was good, it just was never great. They lacked the one superstar starter that could have pushed them over the hump. See also: Pittsburgh Pirates, 1935-38.

1895-96 Cleveland Spiders. Averaged 82 wins per season (.612 win pct.) and was a bridesmaid both times. In an era of dirty baseball, no team - not even the famed Baltimore Orioles - was dirtier than the Spiders. Jesse Burkett hit over .400 both years, and the mound corps was headed by Cy Young. Their problem: the Baltimore Orioles. No team was scrappier than the Spiders, but no team was smarter than the Orioles. Up and down the lineup, the O's were just better.

DawnBTVS · 01-04-2018, 01:25 PM

The 1990-1993 Chicago White Sox often being usurped by other 90s squads like Cleveland, Yankees, Atlanta, etc. during the decade and it wasn't until 2000 that they'd have another great year but they lost the '93 ALCS and won 94, 87, 86, and 94 games in that early 90s run.

Led by an in his prime Frank Thomas with a lot of very solid hitters scattering the lineups: Robin Ventura, a young Sammy Sosa in 1990 & on the edge Bo Jackson in 1993, a Catcher tandem of Carlton Fisk/Ron Karkovice, and Tim Raines.

Their SP was really good too: Jack McDowell and Alex Fernandez anchored the staff while Greg Hibbard and Wilson Alvarez provided depth on the back end. The bullpen was up & down with some great seasons by Roberto Hernandez, Scott Radinsky, and Ken Patterson in there.

Juggernt · 01-05-2018, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprague

How about the post 45 Red Sox. Only went to one world series, but they had more than just Ted Williams, there was a lot of firepower on those teams...only the Yankees had them overpowered in depth those years. Cleveland was also a very good ball club during that period.

The Red Sox of those years could rake. It would probably be fun to play them (and frustrating because the pitching was often spotty).

RchW · 01-05-2018, 11:07 AM

1985-91 Blue Jays. A very good series of teams that should have done better.

actionjackson · 01-05-2018, 06:48 PM

My suggestion is to look to find teams with very good run differentials that didn't achieve as many wins as they could/should have.

The Game · 01-06-2018, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle

I was alive for the "silent dynasty" of the Indians in the 90s and wondered what other teams from history would make for good teams for importing to a league. Are there other franchises from past decades that were always really solid but were lost to history because they couldn't make it to the world series or missed the playoffs because of being in a division with a historically good team?

Another example would be the '69 Cubs who fell behind the Miracle Mets at the end of the season but had 4 future Hall of Famers on the roster.

1957 & '58 White Sox. back to back 2nd place finishes.'63 - '65 Sox, 3 2nd place finishes.
Any year for the Dodgers 1947 and beyond with Jackie Robinson.4 WS losses til they won it all in 1955
1981 & 1994 Expos.
2003 Cubs
2008 Rays?

Dyzalot · 01-06-2018, 05:41 AM

1976-1978 Kansas City Royals. They lost to the Yankees in the ALCS three years in a row.

01-03-2018, 11:20 AM	#1
subtle Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 85	Looking for quietly excellent historical teams I was alive for the "silent dynasty" of the Indians in the 90s and wondered what other teams from history would make for good teams for importing to a league. Are there other franchises from past decades that were always really solid but were lost to history because they couldn't make it to the world series or missed the playoffs because of being in a division with a historically good team? Another example would be the '69 Cubs who fell behind the Miracle Mets at the end of the season but had 4 future Hall of Famers on the roster.

01-03-2018, 11:59 AM	#2
TheMaus2 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The OOTP Forums. Always. Posts: 1,951	2001 Oakland A's, perhaps? __________________ I write a monthly newsletter on the Food Baseball Association. I also listen to music no one's ever heard of in hopes of looking cool and alternative.

01-03-2018, 04:17 PM	#4
msupoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 621	1994 Astros. __________________

01-03-2018, 04:23 PM	#5
Curve Ball Dave Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,391	Late 70s/early 80s Expos. __________________ "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn.

01-04-2018, 09:47 AM	#6
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,725	1905-08 Pittsburgh Pirates: Over a four-year span, the Pirates averaged 94.5 wins per season (a .614 win percentage), culminating in a 98-win season in 1908. And what did they end up with? Bupkus. Four straight second-place finishes, despite having Honus Wagner, arguably the best all-around player in the major leagues. Their problem: not a whole lot of support from all the guys on the team not named Honus Wagner, especially the pitching staff, which consisted of Vic Willis and a bunch of people nobody has ever heard of. The Bucs finally broke through in 1909, but had to win 110 games to do it. 1963-65 Chicago White Sox: Averaged 95.7 wins per season (.590 win percentage), which earned them three consecutive second-place finishes. A team built around solid pitching and defense, their problem was that they lacked that one star hitter that they could build their offense around. Really, how are you going to catch the Yankees when your best batter is Floyd Robinson? 1950-53 Cleveland Indians: Averaged 92.5 wins per season (.601 win percentage). A Hall-of-Fame starting rotation (Early Wynn, Bob Lemon, Bob Feller, joined by Mike Garcia) and an explosive offense got them nothing better than runner-up finishes in three of those four seasons. Their problem: the New York Yankees. They eventually put it all together in 1954 when they racked up 111 wins. 1932-33 Pittsburgh Pirates: Averaged 86.5 wins per season (.561 win pct.) and finished just out of the money both years. Three teams consistently battled for the NL title in the 1930s: the Giants, the Cubs, and the Pirates. The Pirates are the only one that didn't win a pennant in that decade, despite having the Waner brothers, Pie Traynor, and Arky Vaughn on their clubs. Their problem: pitching. It was good, it just was never great. They lacked the one superstar starter that could have pushed them over the hump. See also: Pittsburgh Pirates, 1935-38. 1895-96 Cleveland Spiders. Averaged 82 wins per season (.612 win pct.) and was a bridesmaid both times. In an era of dirty baseball, no team - not even the famed Baltimore Orioles - was dirtier than the Spiders. Jesse Burkett hit over .400 both years, and the mound corps was headed by Cy Young. Their problem: the Baltimore Orioles. No team was scrappier than the Spiders, but no team was smarter than the Orioles. Up and down the lineup, the O's were just better. __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules Last edited by joefromchicago; 01-04-2018 at 10:02 AM.

01-03-2018, 02:33 PM	#3
sprague All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,948	How about the post 45 Red Sox. Only went to one world series, but they had more than just Ted Williams, there was a lot of firepower on those teams...only the Yankees had them overpowered in depth those years. Cleveland was also a very good ball club during that period.

01-04-2018, 01:25 PM	#7
DawnBTVS Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 416	The 1990-1993 Chicago White Sox often being usurped by other 90s squads like Cleveland, Yankees, Atlanta, etc. during the decade and it wasn't until 2000 that they'd have another great year but they lost the '93 ALCS and won 94, 87, 86, and 94 games in that early 90s run. Led by an in his prime Frank Thomas with a lot of very solid hitters scattering the lineups: Robin Ventura, a young Sammy Sosa in 1990 & on the edge Bo Jackson in 1993, a Catcher tandem of Carlton Fisk/Ron Karkovice, and Tim Raines. Their SP was really good too: Jack McDowell and Alex Fernandez anchored the staff while Greg Hibbard and Wilson Alvarez provided depth on the back end. The bullpen was up & down with some great seasons by Roberto Hernandez, Scott Radinsky, and Ken Patterson in there.

01-05-2018, 11:07 AM	#9
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	1985-91 Blue Jays. A very good series of teams that should have done better. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

01-05-2018, 06:48 PM	#10
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	My suggestion is to look to find teams with very good run differentials that didn't achieve as many wins as they could/should have.

01-06-2018, 05:41 AM	#12
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,740	1976-1978 Kansas City Royals. They lost to the Yankees in the ALCS three years in a row.