Fair and legal way to be competitive

dsvitak · 09-06-2003, 04:59 PM

In your solo leagues, I have found that the trade settings are critical.

If you have the computer "value veterans greatly" then it is quite easy to trade your 33 year old shortstop for some prime 5-star blue rookie.

A great way to stock your minors.

Conversely, if you are looking for a greater challenge, tweaking this the OTHER way will greatly stop this type of player movement.

thbroman · 09-07-2003, 12:20 PM

I play in a solo league, and so far through 4+ seasons I have found that putting the trade level on "hard" makes for a nice competitive balance. The computer sometimes offers trades that I am tempted by, and a few of which I actually take. Most of the time, though, I refuse the trade as offered and then go back to the team for a slightly better deal, which I can get on occasion. It seems to work well that I can't empty another team's organzation of its best talent and stock my own minors.
I don't use coaches or scouts, BTW.

HammerinHamelin · 09-08-2003, 04:11 AM

This works very well, but I find it to be very unrealistic. I usually set it to "value prospects greatly" and find that to be closer to what really happens. To get a highly rated prospect in a trade, most teams have to give up a pretty big star.

Cuss16 · 09-08-2003, 04:30 AM

and you can always set a payroll limit, it's not very realistic but it adds a lot more challenge.

ctorg · 09-08-2003, 10:30 AM

Most people I've talked to have felt that favoring veterans is best because of the low rate of prospects developing well.

JAttractive · 09-08-2003, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ctorg
Most people I've talked to have felt that favoring veterans is best because of the low rate of prospects developing well.

Wow I greatly disagree. Prospects are not sure bets certainly but decent youngsters are gold and their is always the chance the prospect has talent increases.

Trading a 25 year old "veteran" for a couple prospects is realistic. Trading a 35 year old star with one or two good years left and a hefty salary for a bunch of star prospects is not.

Even at the normal setting if you want to rip your team apart and go for youth you can build an amazing farm team and be top dog in no time having such depth that you can continue to trade this way so that you are always a top team.

JAttractive · 09-08-2003, 10:57 AM

I always thought of favoring veterans as an accepted way to "cheat".

dsvitak · 09-08-2003, 08:26 PM

Well, is it cheating, if it is a design parameter from Marcus?

twins15 · 09-08-2003, 08:34 PM

Is anything in this game illegal? I know I would hate to ilegally win.

thbroman · 09-09-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Even at the normal setting if you want to rip your team apart and go for youth you can build an amazing farm team and be top dog in no time having such depth that you can continue to trade this way so that you are always a top team.

JAttractive, my experience up to now sugests that developing talkent is a lot more chancey than that. I started out with a pretty weak franchise and for two or three years I had high places in the amateur draft. I drafted a number of "sure bets" that didn't pan out, as one ought to expect. Anyway, I like having no preference in the AI's trading, either toward veterans or prospects. It seems to work well with disabling the coaching/scouting system.

ctorg · 09-09-2003, 12:10 PM

I've seen a very low rate of high-rated prospects developing into stars. Basically, a veteran is a sure thing, while a prospect with great talents but 0 or 1 in all the categories usually won't turn out to be much of anything.

PBRmeASAP · 09-09-2003, 01:25 PM

Limiting cash is a great way to control the league for balence

thbroman · 09-09-2003, 03:16 PM

I agree -- it seems to prevent the A.I. from going bonkers over talented free agents.

JAttractive · 09-09-2003, 09:24 PM

Well I don't know why some of you are seeing different than I am. All I know is that I *thought* I had set it once to favour prospects but it was still at normal. Next thing I knew my team was filled with future Hall of Famers, all brought in through drafting or traded for as prospects, (3 sp, C, 1b, SS, 3b, DH, LF, CF, RF). Not one was a free agent signee or brought in as a veteran. My minors also happened to be the top system by *far* and I had won something like 6 consecutive World Series by this point. That's when I noticed the wrong setting had been turned on and had to delete the league because it felt so "cheap".

I wonder if perhaps your prospect evaluation strategies are a bit off. Please don't take offense to that but to see such drastically different results suggests something is up.

Skipaway · 09-09-2003, 10:21 PM

Maybe we should check the track records of those favoring veterans or prospects. As far as I recall, most of the successful solo game dynasties are based on trading away veterans for prospects to keep the payrolls low. With that strategy, you can stay over .650 year in year out indefinitely, while keeping the payroll below 60mil or even 40mil sometimes.

Set the trade to heavily favor prospects is the only way to stop that kind of strategy from steamrolling, and favor veterans would only add fuel on fire. Whatever low rate of prospects developing wouldn't matter, without AI favoring prospects in trades, it's easy to trade one good veteran for 3 good prospects. I've had teams that includes 2/3 of the top 100 prospects. It was so ugly that my AAA and AA team filled up to 50 players with at least 4 stars, most of them blocked by pre-FA players in the MLB. And I actually have to trade AAA prospects for A prospects consistently.

thbroman · 09-10-2003, 09:57 AM

I agree with Skipaway and JAttractive that something odd is happening to make our experiences so divergent. Let's see. I use reduced talent ratings, but the first filter that I put on my draftees and trade prospects is the star system. I prefer this because it helps me find players who have some speed and especially who defend well. Then with players who make it through that filter I look for guys who have talent for contact and a good eye. Power is definitely a secondary consideration for me.

Maybe I just need to learn to spot talent better. Or maybe the game overproduces steroid-bulked sluggers & my unwillingness to draft or trade for those types makes my minors look less awesome.
It's probably a little of both!

jbone · 09-11-2003, 12:07 AM

I generally look for players who are at least "good" in avg. and walks, so that if they're talent drops, they don't become a waste. I also look for solid defense, but only really at the SS, 2B and CF positions. Then I look for power. Then I check to see if the player's speed is in correlation to his range- and I also check out his injury rating.

scotto313 · 09-11-2003, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cuss16
and you can always set a payroll limit, it's not very realistic but it adds a lot more challenge.

I find it more realistic and challenging to pick a small to medium market team ( Cleveland is my personal favorite) and then jack up most of the large market teams T.V. money. Try giving the Yankees 100 Million in Television revenue. ( Very realistic!) Then see how you fair against them.

09-06-2003, 04:59 PM	#1
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,376	Fair and legal way to be competitive In your solo leagues, I have found that the trade settings are critical. If you have the computer "value veterans greatly" then it is quite easy to trade your 33 year old shortstop for some prime 5-star blue rookie. A great way to stock your minors. Conversely, if you are looking for a greater challenge, tweaking this the OTHER way will greatly stop this type of player movement.

09-08-2003, 04:30 AM	#4
Cuss16 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: BC, CANADA Posts: 2,994	and you can always set a payroll limit, it's not very realistic but it adds a lot more challenge. __________________

09-08-2003, 10:30 AM	#5
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	Most people I've talked to have felt that favoring veterans is best because of the low rate of prospects developing well. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-08-2003, 08:34 PM	#9
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	Is anything in this game illegal? I know I would hate to ilegally win. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

09-09-2003, 12:10 PM	#11
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I've seen a very low rate of high-rated prospects developing into stars. Basically, a veteran is a sure thing, while a prospect with great talents but 0 or 1 in all the categories usually won't turn out to be much of anything. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

09-07-2003, 12:20 PM	#2
thbroman All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 867	I play in a solo league, and so far through 4+ seasons I have found that putting the trade level on "hard" makes for a nice competitive balance. The computer sometimes offers trades that I am tempted by, and a few of which I actually take. Most of the time, though, I refuse the trade as offered and then go back to the team for a slightly better deal, which I can get on occasion. It seems to work well that I can't empty another team's organzation of its best talent and stock my own minors. I don't use coaches or scouts, BTW.

09-08-2003, 04:11 AM	#3
HammerinHamelin Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 28	This works very well, but I find it to be very unrealistic. I usually set it to "value prospects greatly" and find that to be closer to what really happens. To get a highly rated prospect in a trade, most teams have to give up a pretty big star.

09-08-2003, 10:57 AM	#7
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	I always thought of favoring veterans as an accepted way to "cheat".

09-08-2003, 08:26 PM	#8
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,376	Well, is it cheating, if it is a design parameter from Marcus?

09-09-2003, 01:25 PM	#12
PBRmeASAP Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 63	Limiting cash is a great way to control the league for balence

09-09-2003, 03:16 PM	#13
thbroman All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 867	I agree -- it seems to prevent the A.I. from going bonkers over talented free agents.

09-09-2003, 09:24 PM	#14
JAttractive All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Catharines, Ontario Posts: 1,135	Well I don't know why some of you are seeing different than I am. All I know is that I thought I had set it once to favour prospects but it was still at normal. Next thing I knew my team was filled with future Hall of Famers, all brought in through drafting or traded for as prospects, (3 sp, C, 1b, SS, 3b, DH, LF, CF, RF). Not one was a free agent signee or brought in as a veteran. My minors also happened to be the top system by far and I had won something like 6 consecutive World Series by this point. That's when I noticed the wrong setting had been turned on and had to delete the league because it felt so "cheap". I wonder if perhaps your prospect evaluation strategies are a bit off. Please don't take offense to that but to see such drastically different results suggests something is up.

09-09-2003, 10:21 PM	#15
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 11,017	Maybe we should check the track records of those favoring veterans or prospects. As far as I recall, most of the successful solo game dynasties are based on trading away veterans for prospects to keep the payrolls low. With that strategy, you can stay over .650 year in year out indefinitely, while keeping the payroll below 60mil or even 40mil sometimes. Set the trade to heavily favor prospects is the only way to stop that kind of strategy from steamrolling, and favor veterans would only add fuel on fire. Whatever low rate of prospects developing wouldn't matter, without AI favoring prospects in trades, it's easy to trade one good veteran for 3 good prospects. I've had teams that includes 2/3 of the top 100 prospects. It was so ugly that my AAA and AA team filled up to 50 players with at least 4 stars, most of them blocked by pre-FA players in the MLB. And I actually have to trade AAA prospects for A prospects consistently. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

09-10-2003, 09:57 AM	#16
thbroman All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 867	I agree with Skipaway and JAttractive that something odd is happening to make our experiences so divergent. Let's see. I use reduced talent ratings, but the first filter that I put on my draftees and trade prospects is the star system. I prefer this because it helps me find players who have some speed and especially who defend well. Then with players who make it through that filter I look for guys who have talent for contact and a good eye. Power is definitely a secondary consideration for me. Maybe I just need to learn to spot talent better. Or maybe the game overproduces steroid-bulked sluggers & my unwillingness to draft or trade for those types makes my minors look less awesome. It's probably a little of both!

09-11-2003, 12:07 AM	#17
jbone Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 156	I generally look for players who are at least "good" in avg. and walks, so that if they're talent drops, they don't become a waste. I also look for solid defense, but only really at the SS, 2B and CF positions. Then I look for power. Then I check to see if the player's speed is in correlation to his range- and I also check out his injury rating. __________________ "Ain't no use steppin' if you don't step hot" -Roots Manuva