Having to Take Over the HOF

Hal_10000 · 12-02-2017, 09:18 PM

I have a historic league I've been running for a long time. Up until OOTP18, I let the computer run the HOF voting (with my ballot). But I'm going to have to turn that off and do it manually from now on. Unless I've set something wrong, I've noticed two big problems:

1) The computer seems to be practically ignoring my vote. Before, whether I voted for a player or not made a big difference in how he fared in the overall ballot. Now it seems to make no difference or a minor one. Has this been changed? Is there way to change it back?

2) The bigger issue is that HOF Standards and Monitor system are very off for relief pitchers. Consider the following fictional pitcher:

Simon Pilon, 103-123, 413 Saves, 3.50 ERA, 1529.1 IP, 1456 K, 23.2 WAR, Elected to three ASG and won one reliever of the year award.

The computer just put this good but not great closer in the Hall over my ballot and on the first try. Why? I'm guessing because his Gene Garber-like career produced a 61 HOF Standard and a 139 HOF Monitor. That is, it thinks he was roughly as worthy of the Hall as Whitey Ford.

Check out real-life pitchers. I'm second to few in my admiration for Mariano Rivera but his 79 HOF Standard puts him among Cy Young and Pete Alexander, above Maddux and Clemens. Billy Wagner, all 903 innings of him, has similar monitor-standard credentials to Bert Blyleven. Lee Smith is seen as the equivalent of Rube Waddell.

I appreciate that you tried to retool these things to better evaluate relievers but the scales seem tipped too far. I'm going to have to take over my HOF or I'm going to end up with a million closers in there.

r0nster · 12-02-2017, 11:33 PM

my view its been pretty good for the most part. However from what I have seen on OOTP and real life the Good to great players are definitely diminished. We no longer have GREAT players. Now a days we have good players and very few as what some would say GREAT. When I say great I am talking the standards of HOF as the best of the best group. Today we don't see those kinds of statistics .... I go for old school stats and not like what people on here seem to care most about is like WAR stats. Plus players don't go near as long as they once did. $$$ anyways I think they done a pretty good job with HOF as I am sure they will tweak it in next version OOTP19 .... seems some of us users have high standards for HOF and I am thinking we need to lower them LOL (in real life)

The Game · 12-03-2017, 01:17 AM

Do you have both boxes checked? Otherwise i have no clue. i vote for players in my EBL league every season and i do not vote for borderline guys because it seems like too often they will go in on the 1st ballot.

NoOne · 12-03-2017, 02:22 AM

i think if you pick X amount to start a hall of fame, it helps the AI choose ensuing players. also, it's better to wait a bit before starting it up, imo. since it's a long-running league, sounds like that won't be a problem.

like anyone else picking it for you, there will be some debate. you could try 'this' and see if it makes better choices.

possibly league milestones influence this? think they are in the same section of settings at the least.

i prefer to control mine. it doesn't add much time to a calendar year. so, if you don't want ot invest much effort, it's easily done.

the case with releivers, i believe is related to real life. it's quite difficult for releivers to get in. another reason to control it. it should keep it relative to position though... so if the monitor is low for a reliever in the hall it shoudl help other lower rated relieving careers.

Hal_10000 · 12-04-2017, 10:22 AM

I have both boxes checked. The downside of not letting the computer vote is that it becomes up-or-down based on my vote. They either get 100% or 0%. Before OOTP18, my vote had a big influence -- no candidate could get in without my vote and no candidate I voted for failed to get in (eventually). But candidates would build or lose momentum, which was fun. It seems something was lost in the latest version.

It's kind of a bummer because the HOF voting was my favorite part of any season. I have scripts that churn through the database .csv files and create portfolios on every player who meets a certain minimum and I like to keep an eye on careers with HOF potential and see how the vote waxes and wanes. I've just lost a part of that, which makes the game a bit less fun. Maybe OOTP19 you can weight human votes?

wallewalls · 12-04-2017, 10:25 AM

I’ve noticed that good but not great relievers sometimes get votes more than they should. Recently in my save there was a reliever who got 70% on his first ballot even though I didn’t vote for him either. He was a good pitcher but not great, but even his HOF metrics weren’t that good either

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hal_10000 · 12-04-2017, 10:27 AM

Also, my larger point is that monitor-standards system is way too generous with relievers, which is at the core of the problem. Mediocre relievers should not be getting huge scores on those metrics because they put together a bunch of seasons with low ERAs and high K/9. This is a problem the real HOF is going to deal with because there is a slew of these guys coming down the pipe (e.g., Papelbon, Rodriguez).

jpeters1734 · 12-05-2017, 06:06 PM

What I have noticed is that if you don't vote for them 1st ballot, they will have trouble getting in. Even if you vote them for every season after. That first ballot is huge

The Game · 12-05-2017, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

What I have noticed is that if you don't vote for them 1st ballot, they will have trouble getting in. Even if you vote them for every season after. That first ballot is huge

Yeah i had 2 somewhat borderline guys who I did not vote for their 1st year on the ballot and they were both dropped. i would have liked to see them hover in the 20% range for a few years.

12-02-2017, 09:18 PM	#1
Hal_10000 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 55	Having to Take Over the HOF I have a historic league I've been running for a long time. Up until OOTP18, I let the computer run the HOF voting (with my ballot). But I'm going to have to turn that off and do it manually from now on. Unless I've set something wrong, I've noticed two big problems: 1) The computer seems to be practically ignoring my vote. Before, whether I voted for a player or not made a big difference in how he fared in the overall ballot. Now it seems to make no difference or a minor one. Has this been changed? Is there way to change it back? 2) The bigger issue is that HOF Standards and Monitor system are very off for relief pitchers. Consider the following fictional pitcher: Simon Pilon, 103-123, 413 Saves, 3.50 ERA, 1529.1 IP, 1456 K, 23.2 WAR, Elected to three ASG and won one reliever of the year award. The computer just put this good but not great closer in the Hall over my ballot and on the first try. Why? I'm guessing because his Gene Garber-like career produced a 61 HOF Standard and a 139 HOF Monitor. That is, it thinks he was roughly as worthy of the Hall as Whitey Ford. Check out real-life pitchers. I'm second to few in my admiration for Mariano Rivera but his 79 HOF Standard puts him among Cy Young and Pete Alexander, above Maddux and Clemens. Billy Wagner, all 903 innings of him, has similar monitor-standard credentials to Bert Blyleven. Lee Smith is seen as the equivalent of Rube Waddell. I appreciate that you tried to retool these things to better evaluate relievers but the scales seem tipped too far. I'm going to have to take over my HOF or I'm going to end up with a million closers in there.

12-03-2017, 01:17 AM	#3
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Do you have both boxes checked? Otherwise i have no clue. i vote for players in my EBL league every season and i do not vote for borderline guys because it seems like too often they will go in on the 1st ballot. __________________ Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong"

12-04-2017, 10:22 AM	#5
Hal_10000 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 55	I have both boxes checked. The downside of not letting the computer vote is that it becomes up-or-down based on my vote. They either get 100% or 0%. Before OOTP18, my vote had a big influence -- no candidate could get in without my vote and no candidate I voted for failed to get in (eventually). But candidates would build or lose momentum, which was fun. It seems something was lost in the latest version. It's kind of a bummer because the HOF voting was my favorite part of any season. I have scripts that churn through the database .csv files and create portfolios on every player who meets a certain minimum and I like to keep an eye on careers with HOF potential and see how the vote waxes and wanes. I've just lost a part of that, which makes the game a bit less fun. Maybe OOTP19 you can weight human votes? Last edited by Hal_10000; 12-04-2017 at 10:24 AM.

12-05-2017, 06:06 PM	#8
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,220	What I have noticed is that if you don't vote for them 1st ballot, they will have trouble getting in. Even if you vote them for every season after. That first ballot is huge __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

12-02-2017, 11:33 PM	#2
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,053	my view its been pretty good for the most part. However from what I have seen on OOTP and real life the Good to great players are definitely diminished. We no longer have GREAT players. Now a days we have good players and very few as what some would say GREAT. When I say great I am talking the standards of HOF as the best of the best group. Today we don't see those kinds of statistics .... I go for old school stats and not like what people on here seem to care most about is like WAR stats. Plus players don't go near as long as they once did. $$$ anyways I think they done a pretty good job with HOF as I am sure they will tweak it in next version OOTP19 .... seems some of us users have high standards for HOF and I am thinking we need to lower them LOL (in real life)

12-03-2017, 02:22 AM	#4
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	i think if you pick X amount to start a hall of fame, it helps the AI choose ensuing players. also, it's better to wait a bit before starting it up, imo. since it's a long-running league, sounds like that won't be a problem. like anyone else picking it for you, there will be some debate. you could try 'this' and see if it makes better choices. possibly league milestones influence this? think they are in the same section of settings at the least. i prefer to control mine. it doesn't add much time to a calendar year. so, if you don't want ot invest much effort, it's easily done. the case with releivers, i believe is related to real life. it's quite difficult for releivers to get in. another reason to control it. it should keep it relative to position though... so if the monitor is low for a reliever in the hall it shoudl help other lower rated relieving careers.

12-04-2017, 10:25 AM	#6
wallewalls All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 774 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I’ve noticed that good but not great relievers sometimes get votes more than they should. Recently in my save there was a reliever who got 70% on his first ballot even though I didn’t vote for him either. He was a good pitcher but not great, but even his HOF metrics weren’t that good either Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

12-04-2017, 10:27 AM	#7
Hal_10000 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 55	Also, my larger point is that monitor-standards system is way too generous with relievers, which is at the core of the problem. Mediocre relievers should not be getting huge scores on those metrics because they put together a bunch of seasons with low ERAs and high K/9. This is a problem the real HOF is going to deal with because there is a slew of these guys coming down the pipe (e.g., Papelbon, Rodriguez).