Does a good fielder affect his neighbor's Zone Rating?

Furious · 09-02-2017, 04:15 PM

Someone in one of my leagues is making the claim that a player's negative zone rating could be at least partially the result of a rangy fielder playing next to him and fielding balls that would otherwise be his; in other words, Player A is coming into Player B's zone and "stealing" some of Player B's plays, negatively affecting Player B's zone rating.

Is this possible? Or does Player B only get "punished" for plays in his zone that aren't made at all (by him or by one of his teammates)?

Rosco Peabody · 09-03-2017, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Furious

Someone in one of my leagues is making the claim that a player's negative zone rating could be at least partially the result of a rangy fielder playing next to him and fielding balls that would otherwise be his; in other words, Player A is coming into Player B's zone and "stealing" some of Player B's plays, negatively affecting Player B's zone rating.

Is this possible? Or does Player B only get "punished" for plays in his zone that aren't made at all (by him or by one of his teammates)?

Oooo good question. Not sure if this comes up in the game, but this is an interesting real life question

DaBears · 09-03-2017, 01:13 PM

I would doubt this effect comes into play in OOTP, but in real life it is certainly true. With the Braves when Andrew Jones was there, the LF/RF were often considered sub-par defenders because they almost never made truly spectacular plays....because often Jones was there and made the "easy" play before they could dive or splat, as the case might be. The same would be true of Kiermeier today and Mays long ago.

If you apply that logic to zone rating (UZR) or any other sabermetric measure, if Kiermeier makes a play in deep right-center the RF might have made, then the RF's UZR suffers a hit from not receiving credit. I would think this usually only applies to LF/RF as the CF has first rights to fly balls. It would happen on occasion where you have a great LF/RF (see Betts, Boston...or Heyward, of Cub fame) but that is probably much less often the case.

Furious · 09-03-2017, 01:56 PM

I’m trying to determine if the calculation takes those “stolen” plays into account. Ball is hit into your zone, and the play is made—just not by you. It seems most logical to me that the play shouldn’t count for you or against you. It can’t be assumed that you wouldn’t have made the play, nor can it be assumed you would have. The play shouldn’t be a part of the calculation at all. It would be like docking you an AB for walking or getting hit by a pitch.

But regardless of what “should” happen... I’m just trying to find out what does happen. Does the calculation for ZR or UZR take that play into account or not?

MikeS21 · 09-05-2017, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosco Peabody

Oooo good question. Not sure if this comes up in the game, but this is an interesting real life question

Actually, this is very true to life.

I grew up outside Cincinnati in the days of the Big Red Machine. Joe Morgan and Davey Concepcion manned 2B and SS. Both were perennial Gold Glovers with great range and fielding abilities. Because of their range, they could cover the balls hit up that middle, and still were both able to line up a step or two closer to 1B in Morgan's case, and 3B in Concepcion's case. In turn, that allowed the 1B and and 3B to both move a step closer to the lines. The result was greater coverage by all the fielders.

NoOne · 09-05-2017, 10:41 AM

i think in the game i picks a location out (based on %'s etc and other factors) and then a fielder's ability is considered... as opposed to tracking the actual path and whether someone might get in the way sooner in an extraordinary way.

(displaying a path and using it are 2 wholey different concepts - for those thinking about the 3d feedback you see. likely accurate to basic physics but not likely part of the "game engine" as far as how results are worked out)

in that order of events, it shouldn't effect any other player like what you see in RL. basically those occurences are part of the overall %'s they use as far as who gets what opportunity or where the ball goes etc etc.

It may not consider the curve a weird flyball has, but it's already built into the error% etc.. that type of similar concept.

CraigBShuman · 09-05-2017, 11:56 AM

That's a very good question. I would think that that is too complex an issue for OOTP to program into the game. I am not even sure if real life zonal ratings or range factors take that into effect.

09-02-2017, 04:15 PM	#1
Furious Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 321	Does a good fielder affect his neighbor's Zone Rating? Someone in one of my leagues is making the claim that a player's negative zone rating could be at least partially the result of a rangy fielder playing next to him and fielding balls that would otherwise be his; in other words, Player A is coming into Player B's zone and "stealing" some of Player B's plays, negatively affecting Player B's zone rating. Is this possible? Or does Player B only get "punished" for plays in his zone that aren't made at all (by him or by one of his teammates)?

09-05-2017, 10:41 AM	#6
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	i think in the game i picks a location out (based on %'s etc and other factors) and then a fielder's ability is considered... as opposed to tracking the actual path and whether someone might get in the way sooner in an extraordinary way. (displaying a path and using it are 2 wholey different concepts - for those thinking about the 3d feedback you see. likely accurate to basic physics but not likely part of the "game engine" as far as how results are worked out) in that order of events, it shouldn't effect any other player like what you see in RL. basically those occurences are part of the overall %'s they use as far as who gets what opportunity or where the ball goes etc etc. It may not consider the curve a weird flyball has, but it's already built into the error% etc.. that type of similar concept. Last edited by NoOne; 09-05-2017 at 10:42 AM.

09-03-2017, 01:13 PM	#3
DaBears All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 531	I would doubt this effect comes into play in OOTP, but in real life it is certainly true. With the Braves when Andrew Jones was there, the LF/RF were often considered sub-par defenders because they almost never made truly spectacular plays....because often Jones was there and made the "easy" play before they could dive or splat, as the case might be. The same would be true of Kiermeier today and Mays long ago. If you apply that logic to zone rating (UZR) or any other sabermetric measure, if Kiermeier makes a play in deep right-center the RF might have made, then the RF's UZR suffers a hit from not receiving credit. I would think this usually only applies to LF/RF as the CF has first rights to fly balls. It would happen on occasion where you have a great LF/RF (see Betts, Boston...or Heyward, of Cub fame) but that is probably much less often the case.

09-03-2017, 01:56 PM	#4
Furious Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 321	I’m trying to determine if the calculation takes those “stolen” plays into account. Ball is hit into your zone, and the play is made—just not by you. It seems most logical to me that the play shouldn’t count for you or against you. It can’t be assumed that you wouldn’t have made the play, nor can it be assumed you would have. The play shouldn’t be a part of the calculation at all. It would be like docking you an AB for walking or getting hit by a pitch. But regardless of what “should” happen... I’m just trying to find out what does happen. Does the calculation for ZR or UZR take that play into account or not?

09-05-2017, 11:56 AM	#7
CraigBShuman Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 125	That's a very good question. I would think that that is too complex an issue for OOTP to program into the game. I am not even sure if real life zonal ratings or range factors take that into effect.