pinch-hitting penalty

[thehef]

There was significant discussion last year, in the OOTP 17 forums, about a pinch-hitting penalty. There seemed to be considerable debate about whether a pinch-hit penalty is real or not in MLB, and in that I have no interest, because there seemed to be consensus that a PH penalty IS in OOTP - and that's what matters for this discussion. In addition - and assuming that there is the PH penalty in OOTP - common sense would dictate that the PH penalty would therefore be unfairly applied to players whose RL stats were accumulated via significant number of PH appearances.

So, given the above...

1) Does OOTP 18 still apply a blanket PH penalty - and thus unfairly penalize someone like mid-70's Manny Mota - or has some tweaking been done to this logic (I don't recall seeing anything about this in beta, so I'd guess it is the status quo from OOTP 17 to 18).

2) Assuming status quo, should OOTP devs take a look at this and perhaps apply some sort of formula that could identify players that were used primarily as PH's, and therefore reduce or eliminate the penalty?

I recall years ago helping out a programmer who was working on a pro basketball sim. The goal was to use statistics-only to determine the injury-proneness of players. While there was more logic to come, the basic idea was to look at playing time & games played. Without getting into too much detail, as examples, if a player played starter-level or at least rotation-level minutes, and appeared in, say, 50 games, one could assume he missed time due to injury. If, OTOH, a player shot 30% and played 50 games with avg minutes-per-game of 12, one could assume that he was an end-of-bench guy, as opposed to someone who missed 32 games due to injury. Then, when you do this analysis over a player's career, you can get an idea of - and this is all we were going for - iron man, normal, or injury-prone... So, with that in mind, I'm wondering if some sort similar-ish formula could be applied to the degree to which a pinch-hitting penalty should be applied in OOTP.

Just keeping it simple for this discussion, a player whose plate appearances were somewhere in the ballpark of his total games, and who has very little fielding stats (fielding appearances?) could be said to be primarily a pinch-hitter (and regardless of whether he hit .205 or .350, the PH penalty should not apply much - or even at all - in OOTP)... You probably couldn't take it much farther than that because once you make a determination that a player was used as significantly as both a PH and in non-PH roles, you'd have no way - based upon stats OOTP currently uses - to determine how the player performed as a PH vs non-PH... But at least it would be a good start and would make PH more-accurate in OOTP for many of the guys who spend seasons as mostly PH's...

True that this "formula" idea would not be purely stats-based, but then again, neither are the options to Adjust or Weaken Hitters, and nor are the random splits that OOTP comes up with (if you choose that option). Those are just randomized attempts to make historical OOTP a little more realistic. That's all this PH idea would be.

Thoughts?

[Padreman]

Hmmmm

[NoOne]

if their's a prevailing amount of research that backs up the concept, there's a good chance it's in the game.

based on recent comments from ootp agents about ttop and faded memories of the past thread more directly related to this topic, i'd guess this is in the game.

i'm pretty sure they (ootp) essentially agreed that it exists i RL, that is my faded memory, though. if they say something like that, it's likely in the game. (based on old memory, *** third time i gave that warning, lol) you can dig if interested, i don't hav ethat kind of motivation for it.

maybe that was DH-penatly or they are both related??? anyway.. thats the import portion.. nonsense below.

some of the other stuff you asked they aren't going to give precise details about... it may or may not be a blanket % change... maybe it scales to ability a bit and this or that, too.

and in coding it's got to be tied to somethign you can quantify and keep track of (a defined variable).. don't think/refer to it as "stats-based" in these forums, people will confuse it for a different talking pont

you use RL to get the baselines as you described, basically. yeah, statistical analysis is generally the method for mining this sort of knowledge from a mass of data. but, it's essential to know it's not in the game where -40games played and starter and % chance goes up... that's not proper. google for better explanation.

a player may be more volatile than the next, that's a 'cause' for an elevated % chance of injury... but, ignoring all other factors, % cahnce is the same for any game relative to each context and individuals involved.

then you can keep adding more sophisticated wrinkles resolving more factors and their weights/%'s etc etc.. like in the ttop thread discussion, it's likely multiple factors mixed together that have not individually resolved by ootp as of yet.

and then all of those baselines are warped by individual talents of the players invovled etc etc... mutually exclusive forces adding up. like attacking any physics problem, if that helps.

[vicenteegardo]

Por qué estabas primero

Enviado desde mi MotoE2(4G-LTE) mediante Tapatalk

[Painmantle]

Maybe for the sake of this thread it would be a good Idea to actually explain what this perceived PH Penalty is?

I am familiar with OOTP reducing ratings of players who had fewer then X # of AB or IP, but somehow this whole concept slid by me and I have no Idea what it is this thread actually refers to!