MiLB Roster Rules

PSUColonel · 02-07-2017, 12:10 PM

I have my minor league roster sizes setup just as they actually are:

AAA: 25
AA: 25
A+: 25
A: 25
A-:35
R: 35

The only thing I cannot seem to replicate is A+, A The two levels have an active roster size of 25, but have a roster of 35.

My question is whether or not there is a way to replicate this within OOTP? If not, this is something I'd like to see included in the near future.

NoOne · 02-07-2017, 05:40 PM

make sure you are okay with the ai behaviour when you set rookie to 35... i realize the game itself says not lower than that... but even 35 is pretty low.

this is one area you might want to be willing to have less realistic settings for the sake of how the video game functions.

i had problems with 35 -- you may not. lately i've tried 45 in an effort to avoid creating 'more' new players per year. some teams were clumping up in the rookie league (enough teams clumping where the net effect of a max roster size was a reduction in # of players in rookie league). 35 caused a bunch of crap players to be pushed up to minor league levels they shouldn't have been playing in. I'm sure it's still happening at 45, but at least it's more spread out and less frequently a clump of more than a few players and after some long-term simming dinking around with GM sliders, never saw a problem with needing players.

the reason i say be willing to think differently is because the game uses those limits as a goal in some respects... it will fill up to that amount even when it doesn't need extra players. so, if you use a roster limit in rookie, it's a constant give and take of those 2 forces -- clumping and filling for no need. does that cause an incerase or decrease in needed palyers? does it cause bad ai decisions? etc etc use results to dictate your choice.

you put it too high and you don't have enough FA overflow to cover all the gaps that need to be filled randomly over time (relative to how many new players you make per year). put it too low and players get released or pushed into promotions before they can handle it. always dam*ed if you do, dam*ed of you don't.

if you see 50-70+ on a enough teams (if you want "35", count up overflow of hoarding - estimate is good), i'd definitely use them and figure out a # that works well for your settings. if you see 50 as the max and only a few teams hit that number, i'd suggest being happy with that. that's not too high to be a real problem when it's only 1-3? teams out of 30....

e.g. you go from 35 to 40, and 30 (or more in rookie!) teams will (no choice) add 5 players = 150 new players needed and of a particular sort to fill properly -- low development, typically very young). if only a couple teams have 10-15 extra players that's only an extra 20-30 players. you've just created a need for an additional 100+ players by comparison to not using limits. do that enough and you will need to change some player creation settings (draft / int't amatuers created per year etc).

PSUColonel · 02-07-2017, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

make sure you are okay with the ai behaviour when you set rookie to 35... i realize the game itself says not lower than that... but even 35 is pretty low.

this is one area you might want to be willing to have less realistic settings for the sake of how the video game functions.

i had problems with 35 -- you may not. lately i've tried 45 in an effort to avoid creating 'more' new players per year. some teams were clumping up in the rookie league (enough teams clumping where the net effect of a max roster size was a reduction in # of players in rookie league). 35 caused a bunch of crap players to be pushed up to minor league levels they shouldn't have been playing in. I'm sure it's still happening at 45, but at least it's more spread out and less frequently a clump of more than a few players and after some long-term simming dinking around with GM sliders, never saw a problem with needing players.

the reason i say be willing to think differently is because the game uses those limits as a goal in some respects... it will fill up to that amount even when it doesn't need extra players. so, if you use a roster limit in rookie, it's a constant give and take of those 2 forces -- clumping and filling for no need. does that cause an incerase or decrease in needed palyers? does it cause bad ai decisions? etc etc use results to dictate your choice.

you put it too high and you don't have enough FA overflow to cover all the gaps that need to be filled randomly over time (relative to how many new players you make per year). put it too low and players get released or pushed into promotions before they can handle it. always dam*ed if you do, dam*ed of you don't.

if you see 50-70+ on a enough teams (if you want "35", count up overflow of hoarding - estimate is good), i'd definitely use them and figure out a # that works well for your settings. if you see 50 as the max and only a few teams hit that number, i'd suggest being happy with that. that's not too high to be a real problem when it's only 1-3? teams out of 30....

e.g. you go from 35 to 40, and 30 (or more in rookie!) teams will (no choice) add 5 players = 150 new players needed and of a particular sort to fill properly -- low development, typically very young). if only a couple teams have 10-15 extra players that's only an extra 20-30 players. you've just created a need for an additional 100+ players by comparison to not using limits. do that enough and you will need to change some player creation settings (draft / int't amatuers created per year etc).

When you talk about a "shortage" of players...what exactly do you mean. Where is the shortage? Is it due to not having enough rounds in your draft? I also employ realistic service times for my minor leagues.

If the AI is attempting to utilize every spot on the roster, how is 45 better than 35 in terms of a player shortage? I am not questioning what you are saying, but instead, trying to gain a better understanding of exactly what's happening.

NoOne · 02-07-2017, 08:11 PM

it's all about relative to average... and it's not a better or worse thing - meant it separate from the # choosen. at 35, i'd bet it increases FA pool under default settings, and 45 would be ???, i'd guess that number still increases fa pool under defaults.

also, i just realized the impact of a 2nd rookie league would make a bit of what i have said quite a bit different. i only play with one active, so i've been speaking from that perspective. it 2 Rookie Leagues, then 70 players is plenty - i really doubt you'd see well-rated players dropped out of the top 70, but maybe? you'd have to consider limit*#of leagues instead of just the limit in anything i've said. i'll leave the rest for posteriy.... lol

the service time limits you use are essential to a roster limit working well, too. i've really liked how the work on their own too.

...
...

if it increases average players per team, then you will have a smaller free agent pool, which could cause a shortage of a position. maybe it's small and it just means someone plays out of position... maybe it's big enough that it interupts your simulation and gives a roster error message. unless obvious by how much is still available, may need to sim out a while and see its effects on the free agent pool (and/or look at other things, but that's a good start)

like i said i am testing 35-40-45(current) lately, i don't mean any of this to dissuade any choice - i'd just look at results and look for odd things with negative impacts. i haven't figured out which i prefer, yet. my only goals in this regard are to avoid high potential players being dropped and not having 'too many' duplicates+ of positions or stacking a bullpen too deep. i can attest that they still develop well stacking position players ~2-3 deep in rookie league, while force starting your 'better' prospects or using potential for depth charts in use -- but even the scrubs do fine, that's just a precaution for the more important players.

PSUColonel · 02-07-2017, 08:20 PM

Some teams have 3 rookie leagues, or even 4. The Phillies have a GCL team, and 2 DSL teams. The Yankees have 2 GCL teams and two DSL teams. So I am using 35 for all rookie and A- leagues. I am hoping things will be alright...but I just can't see carrying any more, when there are teams with multiple rookie teams all throughout the league. I am also using a 40 round draft, and generating international players using the defaults.

PSUColonel · 02-07-2017, 08:29 PM

I am wondering though, if there is a way to have say 25 players active (A+, A) with 35 player rosters...but considering this discussion, it might not be a god idea, even if it's possible. Right now, I think the AI does a decent job with the following (but more eyes are better, so test if you wish)

40 round draft

Active Roster : 25 with 40 man roster

AAA : 25 No service limits
AA: 25 No service limits
A+: 25 5 year limit
A: 25 4 year limit
A-: 35 3 year limit
GCL: 35 2 year limit
AZL: 35 2 year limit
DSL: 35 3 year limit

02-07-2017, 12:10 PM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,136	MiLB Roster Rules I have my minor league roster sizes setup just as they actually are: AAA: 25 AA: 25 A+: 25 A: 25 A-:35 R: 35 The only thing I cannot seem to replicate is A+, A The two levels have an active roster size of 25, but have a roster of 35. My question is whether or not there is a way to replicate this within OOTP? If not, this is something I'd like to see included in the near future.

02-07-2017, 05:40 PM	#2
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	make sure you are okay with the ai behaviour when you set rookie to 35... i realize the game itself says not lower than that... but even 35 is pretty low. this is one area you might want to be willing to have less realistic settings for the sake of how the video game functions. i had problems with 35 -- you may not. lately i've tried 45 in an effort to avoid creating 'more' new players per year. some teams were clumping up in the rookie league (enough teams clumping where the net effect of a max roster size was a reduction in # of players in rookie league). 35 caused a bunch of crap players to be pushed up to minor league levels they shouldn't have been playing in. I'm sure it's still happening at 45, but at least it's more spread out and less frequently a clump of more than a few players and after some long-term simming dinking around with GM sliders, never saw a problem with needing players. the reason i say be willing to think differently is because the game uses those limits as a goal in some respects... it will fill up to that amount even when it doesn't need extra players. so, if you use a roster limit in rookie, it's a constant give and take of those 2 forces -- clumping and filling for no need. does that cause an incerase or decrease in needed palyers? does it cause bad ai decisions? etc etc use results to dictate your choice. you put it too high and you don't have enough FA overflow to cover all the gaps that need to be filled randomly over time (relative to how many new players you make per year). put it too low and players get released or pushed into promotions before they can handle it. always damed if you do, damed of you don't. if you see 50-70+ on a enough teams (if you want "35", count up overflow of hoarding - estimate is good), i'd definitely use them and figure out a # that works well for your settings. if you see 50 as the max and only a few teams hit that number, i'd suggest being happy with that. that's not too high to be a real problem when it's only 1-3? teams out of 30.... e.g. you go from 35 to 40, and 30 (or more in rookie!) teams will (no choice) add 5 players = 150 new players needed and of a particular sort to fill properly -- low development, typically very young). if only a couple teams have 10-15 extra players that's only an extra 20-30 players. you've just created a need for an additional 100+ players by comparison to not using limits. do that enough and you will need to change some player creation settings (draft / int't amatuers created per year etc). Last edited by NoOne; 02-07-2017 at 05:46 PM.

02-07-2017, 08:11 PM	#4
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	it's all about relative to average... and it's not a better or worse thing - meant it separate from the # choosen. at 35, i'd bet it increases FA pool under default settings, and 45 would be ???, i'd guess that number still increases fa pool under defaults. also, i just realized the impact of a 2nd rookie league would make a bit of what i have said quite a bit different. i only play with one active, so i've been speaking from that perspective. it 2 Rookie Leagues, then 70 players is plenty - i really doubt you'd see well-rated players dropped out of the top 70, but maybe? you'd have to consider limit#of leagues instead of just the limit in anything i've said. i'll leave the rest for posteriy.... lol the service time limits you use are essential to a roster limit working well, too. i've really liked how the work on their own too. ... ... if it increases average players per team, then you will have a smaller free agent pool, which could cause a shortage of a position. maybe it's small and it just means someone plays out of position... maybe it's big enough that it interupts your simulation and gives a roster error message. unless obvious by how much is still available, may need to sim out a while and see its effects on the free agent pool (and/or look at other things, but that's a good start) like i said i am testing 35-40-45(current) lately, i don't mean any of this to dissuade any choice - i'd just look at results and look for odd things with negative impacts. i haven't figured out which i prefer, yet. my only goals in this regard are to avoid high potential players being dropped and not having 'too many' duplicates+ of positions or stacking a bullpen too deep. i can attest that they still develop well stacking position players ~2-3 deep in rookie league, while force starting your 'better' prospects or using potential for depth charts in use -- but even the scrubs do fine, that's just a precaution for the more important players. Last edited by NoOne; 02-07-2017 at 08:16 PM.*

02-07-2017, 08:20 PM	#5
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,136	Some teams have 3 rookie leagues, or even 4. The Phillies have a GCL team, and 2 DSL teams. The Yankees have 2 GCL teams and two DSL teams. So I am using 35 for all rookie and A- leagues. I am hoping things will be alright...but I just can't see carrying any more, when there are teams with multiple rookie teams all throughout the league. I am also using a 40 round draft, and generating international players using the defaults. Last edited by PSUColonel; 02-07-2017 at 08:23 PM.

02-07-2017, 08:29 PM	#6
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,136	I am wondering though, if there is a way to have say 25 players active (A+, A) with 35 player rosters...but considering this discussion, it might not be a god idea, even if it's possible. Right now, I think the AI does a decent job with the following (but more eyes are better, so test if you wish) 40 round draft Active Roster : 25 with 40 man roster AAA : 25 No service limits AA: 25 No service limits A+: 25 5 year limit A: 25 4 year limit A-: 35 3 year limit GCL: 35 2 year limit AZL: 35 2 year limit DSL: 35 3 year limit