Stadium/attendance Progression

HRBaker · 01-24-2017, 01:50 PM

We all would like a ballpark/stadium construction kit... but MAYBE a text-based subroutine would be an excellent alternative.

I'm going to let everyone throw in their 2 cents, but I picture a database that basically forces each team to keep up with the league average seating capacity by either adding seats or changing to another available field (rare) or building a new field. Each team would have to balance their budget and obtain outside funds to accomplish these things, or ultimately have to deal with the limited income of a smaller field.

This game addition "could" get very complex, but I think all we need in the beginning is for the game to force each team to keep pace with the seating capacities needed to fund the team.

I just hate the manual nature of the ballpark replacement issue right now - would like to see teams have to spend a little time planning for new seating, one way or another.

Thoughts?

David Watts · 01-24-2017, 02:29 PM

Love this suggestion.

mitchkenn · 01-24-2017, 02:46 PM

interesting. like the idea.

HRBaker · 01-24-2017, 07:14 PM

I did this years ago and likely didn't spend a ton of time since I was just looking for a guideline. But it should be "ballpark" (pun intended).

These numbers are the average seating capacity during the years noted. At the time I only wanted a guide, so I took a lot of shortcuts to get these numbers.

I'm sure the OOTP guys will want something more accurate by year maybe....

1901 - 1920 5,000 seats
1921 - 1965 7,000 seats
1946 - 1955 14,000 seats
1956 - 1975 14,000 seats
1976 - 1995 27,000 seats
1996 - Present 30,000 seats

What I'd like to see in the game is an average seats per year (taken from MLB history) and a counter that compares how your team compares. Instead of ignoring the seating capacity and letting the game continue to increase ticket prices, raising prices should be capped in any particular year (justification; prices too high to sell tickets). As teams approached that limit, thought would have to be invested as to whether you would add seats (at a cost) or build a new ballpark (at higher cost). Obtaining sponsors would also be a big part of that process.

Eventually, the game should "remember" these ballpark sizes (and finances) so they are reflected if teams move to a city that already has a ballpark history. But this would have to be a future thing since growing such a process should be slow to see how it effects other parts of the financial system.

MrBojangles · 01-24-2017, 07:52 PM

I like the idea. I would think that there would be a relationship to market size and fan loyalty. I mean, some teams just don't have the draw that others do so wouldn't need the increased seating capacity

mitchkenn · 01-24-2017, 08:49 PM

think your seating numbers are a bit low ..... Here's some numbers i found on-line for capacity in Yankee Stadium over 20 year period.

1923 - 58,000
1926 - 62,000
1928 - 67,113
1929 - 62,000
1937 -71,699
1942 -70,000

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stad..._stadium.shtml

but ball park evolution is a good idea. Pstrickert has historical stadiums in Add-Ons central that does stadium evolution as the years go by, but i haven't looked at that too closely to see what/when and how much.

Le Grande Orange · 01-24-2017, 11:21 PM

MLB average park capacity for selected years, based on seating capacities published in the TSN Guide, Baseball Blue Book, or both.

1940: 44,394
1943: 43,914
1947: 45,003
1948: 44,463
1950: 44,224
1951: 44,210
1952: 43,521
1955: 42,249
1959: 44,518
1960: 45,763
1964: 44,164
1965: 45,057
1966: 45,681
1968: 47,354
1969: 45,262
1972: 48,588
1974: 48,339
1983: 52,256
1985: 52,963
1987: 52,965
1988: 52,919
1989: 52,959
1990: 53,563
1991: 53,305
1993: 53,390
1995: 51,127
1999: 49,202

What's interesting is to take the above and compare it to average per game attendance. One finds that, as the years have progressed, attendance has gone up as a percentage of park capacity.

HRBaker · 01-25-2017, 10:55 AM

I'm glad you jumped in LGO - I knew you would have better information

I think the equation that has to be used ultimately has two primary points, as you have mentioned.

1. The actual (or best guess) seat capacities by year or decade.
2. The actual (or best guess) attendance by year or decade.

If a routine was added to the game to force decisions on seating capacity or new construction, it would compare a team's seating and attendance to the base table and determine if a seating increase was required.

The second part of this would then offer the player an option of either increasing seating or a new ballpark. I think the age of the stadium would also have to part of the equation.

One thing that is obvious, however, is that a working solution to this issue would take some time - even on it's most basic level, but would be a huge improvement over the current system where the game will simply keep increasing the price of tickets and/or limit salary totals.

01-24-2017, 01:50 PM	#1
HRBaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,379	Stadium/attendance Progression We all would like a ballpark/stadium construction kit... but MAYBE a text-based subroutine would be an excellent alternative. I'm going to let everyone throw in their 2 cents, but I picture a database that basically forces each team to keep up with the league average seating capacity by either adding seats or changing to another available field (rare) or building a new field. Each team would have to balance their budget and obtain outside funds to accomplish these things, or ultimately have to deal with the limited income of a smaller field. This game addition "could" get very complex, but I think all we need in the beginning is for the game to force each team to keep pace with the seating capacities needed to fund the team. I just hate the manual nature of the ballpark replacement issue right now - would like to see teams have to spend a little time planning for new seating, one way or another. Thoughts? __________________ *HRB*

01-24-2017, 02:46 PM	#3
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,872	interesting. like the idea. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip.

01-24-2017, 07:14 PM	#4
HRBaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,379	I did this years ago and likely didn't spend a ton of time since I was just looking for a guideline. But it should be "ballpark" (pun intended). These numbers are the average seating capacity during the years noted. At the time I only wanted a guide, so I took a lot of shortcuts to get these numbers. I'm sure the OOTP guys will want something more accurate by year maybe.... 1901 - 1920 5,000 seats 1921 - 1965 7,000 seats 1946 - 1955 14,000 seats 1956 - 1975 14,000 seats 1976 - 1995 27,000 seats 1996 - Present 30,000 seats What I'd like to see in the game is an average seats per year (taken from MLB history) and a counter that compares how your team compares. Instead of ignoring the seating capacity and letting the game continue to increase ticket prices, raising prices should be capped in any particular year (justification; prices too high to sell tickets). As teams approached that limit, thought would have to be invested as to whether you would add seats (at a cost) or build a new ballpark (at higher cost). Obtaining sponsors would also be a big part of that process. Eventually, the game should "remember" these ballpark sizes (and finances) so they are reflected if teams move to a city that already has a ballpark history. But this would have to be a future thing since growing such a process should be slow to see how it effects other parts of the financial system. __________________ *HRB*

01-24-2017, 08:49 PM	#6
mitchkenn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Oregon, not by design Posts: 2,872	think your seating numbers are a bit low ..... Here's some numbers i found on-line for capacity in Yankee Stadium over 20 year period. 1923 - 58,000 1926 - 62,000 1928 - 67,113 1929 - 62,000 1937 -71,699 1942 -70,000 http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stad..._stadium.shtml but ball park evolution is a good idea. Pstrickert has historical stadiums in Add-Ons central that does stadium evolution as the years go by, but i haven't looked at that too closely to see what/when and how much. __________________ "This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip. Last edited by mitchkenn; 01-24-2017 at 08:55 PM.

01-25-2017, 10:55 AM	#8
HRBaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,379	I'm glad you jumped in LGO - I knew you would have better information I think the equation that has to be used ultimately has two primary points, as you have mentioned. 1. The actual (or best guess) seat capacities by year or decade. 2. The actual (or best guess) attendance by year or decade. If a routine was added to the game to force decisions on seating capacity or new construction, it would compare a team's seating and attendance to the base table and determine if a seating increase was required. The second part of this would then offer the player an option of either increasing seating or a new ballpark. I think the age of the stadium would also have to part of the equation. One thing that is obvious, however, is that a working solution to this issue would take some time - even on it's most basic level, but would be a huge improvement over the current system where the game will simply keep increasing the price of tickets and/or limit salary totals. __________________ *HRB*

01-24-2017, 02:29 PM	#2
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 10,142 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Love this suggestion.

01-24-2017, 07:52 PM	#5
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	I like the idea. I would think that there would be a relationship to market size and fan loyalty. I mean, some teams just don't have the draw that others do so wouldn't need the increased seating capacity

01-24-2017, 11:21 PM	#7
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,642	MLB average park capacity for selected years, based on seating capacities published in the TSN Guide, Baseball Blue Book, or both. 1940: 44,394 1943: 43,914 1947: 45,003 1948: 44,463 1950: 44,224 1951: 44,210 1952: 43,521 1955: 42,249 1959: 44,518 1960: 45,763 1964: 44,164 1965: 45,057 1966: 45,681 1968: 47,354 1969: 45,262 1972: 48,588 1974: 48,339 1983: 52,256 1985: 52,963 1987: 52,965 1988: 52,919 1989: 52,959 1990: 53,563 1991: 53,305 1993: 53,390 1995: 51,127 1999: 49,202 What's interesting is to take the above and compare it to average per game attendance. One finds that, as the years have progressed, attendance has gone up as a percentage of park capacity.