Simming ahead as commish

[jpeters1734]

In your defense, I don't understand the argument about simming 100 times to see prospects develop. If you wanted to cheat in that way, you can simply look at player ratings in editor.

Ootp really needs the ability to lock down the editor.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by jDaveMc1984

You're assuming that simming ahead is like using a time machine, which isn't the case. It's literally simulating the simulation. If I were to actually know what would literally happen in my league, I would need a time machine myself, not the OOTP program.

So simming ahead is not like the Yankees using a time machine.

It is exactly like that. I don't understand why you don't see it that way. But I've made my point and I have nothing more to add

[saturn2187]

Yeah this is very clear cheating. I'd run far and fast from a commissioner that had this, or any other advantage over the rest of the league.


What is the fun of a league if everybody is not on a level playing field?


Simming ahead can show which Rookies are likely to have a breakout season, who might be a bust signing, who might be a surprise ace. True these things can differ from one sim to another, but if you have a guy suddenly DOMINATE in this alternate world, then theres a good chance he's going to have a great season in future sims and you could trade for him before anybody else knows.

[jpeters1734]

I will say that I don't believe you were being malicious. Maybe the mob mentality got the best of you. The proper response would not to have been so defensive about it. Because of that, I feel you have lost all trust

[mmarra82]

Cheating...wouldn't be a part of an on-line league when the commish is doing these type of acts.

Sounds as though you made your decision.

[USF]

My friend who plays SOMBB (STRAT) in a league with me always simulates the season before we play. He did it to see how is team stacked up versus the others going into the season. In STRAT baseball I don't see that an issue because there is no player development nor minor leagues / feeders to worry about. In OOTP though this is not the case. So while I understand what you were trying to do; the entire situation would have been handled much better with 100% transparency up front and not afterwards. At that moment you would have learned that 99% of the members would not like it and had this discussion up front. Just bringing this up may get you in trouble as well because people would probably ask hmmm whats next / what else is going on / Commissioner role is a difficult one - you have to be fair, consistent, dedicated and credible. Everything you do and say is LIVE for everyone to read and judge. On that note, cheating or not cheating you are never going to make 100% of the members happy in any league. Again, you definitely crossed a line here and the results of which have showed it. The Fog of War has been lifted.

[GoPedro99]

Originally Posted by jDaveMc1984

And if you're NOT I using for such a reason is it still cheating?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

yes because there is no way to verify that you arnt

[BIG17EASY]

The ONLY way this is not unethical is if it's the commish simming the season once and sharing the results with all GMs. For one person to do it and not the rest, or for each GM to do it individually enters an unethical area, IMO.

I don't play online leagues, and a big reason why is the potential of this going on without my knowledge. I find the AI challenging enough with the right settings that I don't need to worry about people unfairly using exploits to put myself and others at a disadvantage.

[Sweed]

I think most could write a book about how this is just a bad idea no matter what your intentions. It opens a can of worms that saps the trust, that "owners" need to have with each other, out of the league in question.

It takes almost no time to simulate multiple seasons with a good computer. You say it would take many seasons to be able to get the info to "really": cheat. So who sets the limit and what is it? Can I do 50 season replays, 75, 100? If not why not? I'm only simulating the sim (I honestly don't know what that means)

In a league that allowed this (and none ever will and survive) I not only have to worry about how to run my team and compete but I now have to worry about how many sims should I run to keep up with everybody else. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

You say you want to do analysis on your team by simulating ahead. I can't see how one does this without cheating. Let's say I have a stacked lineup and on my team is a great hitter that plays CF poorly. I also have a weak hitting gold glove CF. I analyze this by simming 5 seasons with the hitter in CF and follow up with 5 sims with the gold glover in the lineup. Compare runs scored and allowed with each variation and then set my lineup accordingly.

I have the best basestealer in the league and others that are above average base stealers. I max out my strategy on stealing for him and the team to steal as often as possible. Sim season and get results, with runs scored being my primary interest. Now I set those same stealing strategies to as low as they can be set (even for the best stealer in the leauge) and run the sim. Check runs scored. I could run this setup 5- 10 times pretty quickly and determine which strategy would be more successful. I might find that even though being thrown out 40% of the time my team still scores more runs with a strategy of steal as much as you can. Or I might find that though my runners are only being thrown out 20% of the time that my runs per game actually go down. Guess which strategy I'm going to use? Correct, the one that results in more runs scored! Of course this isn't cheating I'm just analyzing my team

The scenarios are unlimited as to how one could "analyze" their team and cheat. But of course that's ok because everyone is allowed to do it Or am I over reacting because there is a limit to what and how you can sim ahead? And again, once you allow simming ahead who sets those limits?

Isn't the simplest and easiest thing to do is what leagues do now? IE any simulating ahead is considered cheating and keep the field level for everyone? No exceptions, no excuses.

Look at baseball and corked bats as an example. I've heard, of course, people argue it helps the batter. I've heard it makes no difference. I've heard some argue it hurts the batter. I haven't heard there is definitive proof of any of these theories (someone can correct me if that's wrong). But for the sake of argument say none of the above can be proved shouldn't baseball allow corked bats? Or isn't it just simpler to have a no exceptions rule that prohibits them?

[jDaveMc1984]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

In your defense, I don't understand the argument about simming 100 times to see prospects develop. If you wanted to cheat in that way, you can simply look at player ratings in editor.

Ootp really needs the ability to lock down the editor.

See I find that to be cheating.

I just don't see issue with someone simming ahead to analyze their lineup, because it's not a true sim (you have to delete all other GM's and set the teams to AI, which doesn't give you the same simulation)

[jDaveMc1984]

Originally Posted by GoPedro99

yes because there is no way to verify that you arnt

There's no way to verify that I'm not looking at ratings anyway..... If your stance is that commissioners could be cheating, then you have to assume that all are cheating, by your logic.

[USF]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I think most could write a book about how this is just a bad idea no matter what your intentions. It opens a can of worms that saps the trust, that "owners" need to have with each other, out of the league in question.

It takes almost no time to simulate multiple seasons with a good computer. You say it would take many seasons to be able to get the info to "really": cheat. So who sets the limit and what is it? Can I do 50 season replays, 75, 100? If not why not? I'm only simulating the sim (I honestly don't know what that means)

In a league that allowed this (and none ever will and survive) I not only have to worry about how to run my team and compete but I now have to worry about how many sims should I run to keep up with everybody else. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

You say you want to do analysis on your team by simulating ahead. I can't see how one does this without cheating. Let's say I have a stacked lineup and on my team is a great hitter that plays CF poorly. I also have a weak hitting gold glove CF. I analyze this by simming 5 seasons with the hitter in CF and follow up with 5 sims with the gold glover in the lineup. Compare runs scored and allowed with each variation and then set my lineup accordingly.

I have the best basestealer in the league and others that are above average base stealers. I max out my strategy on stealing for him and the team to steal as often as possible. Sim season and get results, with runs scored being my primary interest. Now I set those same stealing strategies to as low as they can be set (even for the best stealer in the leauge) and run the sim. Check runs scored. I could run this setup 5- 10 times pretty quickly and determine which strategy would be more successful. I might find that even though being thrown out 40% of the time my team still scores more runs with a strategy of steal as much as you can. Or I might find that though my runners are only being thrown out 20% of the time that my runs per game actually go down. Guess which strategy I'm going to use? Correct, the one that results in more runs scored! Of course this isn't cheating I'm just analyzing my team

The scenarios are unlimited as to how one could "analyze" their team and cheat. But of course that's ok because everyone is allowed to do it Or am I over reacting because there is a limit to what and how you can sim ahead? And again, once you allow simming ahead who sets those limits?

Isn't the simplest and easiest thing to do is what leagues do now? IE any simulating ahead is considered cheating and keep the field level for everyone? No exceptions, no excuses.

Look at baseball and corked bats as an example. I've heard, of course, people argue it helps the batter. I've heard it makes no difference. I've heard some argue it hurts the batter. I haven't heard there is definitive proof of any of these theories (someone can correct me if that's wrong). But for the sake of argument say none of the above can be proved shouldn't baseball allow corked bats? Or isn't it just simpler to have a no exceptions rule that prohibits them?

Not to mention the Pandora box on possible trades because of the info learned.

[jDaveMc1984]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I think most could write a book about how this is just a bad idea no matter what your intentions. It opens a can of worms that saps the trust, that "owners" need to have with each other, out of the league in question.

It takes almost no time to simulate multiple seasons with a good computer. You say it would take many seasons to be able to get the info to "really": cheat. So who sets the limit and what is it? Can I do 50 season replays, 75, 100? If not why not? I'm only simulating the sim (I honestly don't know what that means)

In a league that allowed this (and none ever will and survive) I not only have to worry about how to run my team and compete but I now have to worry about how many sims should I run to keep up with everybody else. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

You say you want to do analysis on your team by simulating ahead. I can't see how one does this without cheating. Let's say I have a stacked lineup and on my team is a great hitter that plays CF poorly. I also have a weak hitting gold glove CF. I analyze this by simming 5 seasons with the hitter in CF and follow up with 5 sims with the gold glover in the lineup. Compare runs scored and allowed with each variation and then set my lineup accordingly.

I have the best basestealer in the league and others that are above average base stealers. I max out my strategy on stealing for him and the team to steal as often as possible. Sim season and get results, with runs scored being my primary interest. Now I set those same stealing strategies to as low as they can be set (even for the best stealer in the leauge) and run the sim. Check runs scored. I could run this setup 5- 10 times pretty quickly and determine which strategy would be more successful. I might find that even though being thrown out 40% of the time my team still scores more runs with a strategy of steal as much as you can. Or I might find that though my runners are only being thrown out 20% of the time that my runs per game actually go down. Guess which strategy I'm going to use? Correct, the one that results in more runs scored! Of course this isn't cheating I'm just analyzing my team

The scenarios are unlimited as to how one could "analyze" their team and cheat. But of course that's ok because everyone is allowed to do it Or am I over reacting because there is a limit to what and how you can sim ahead? And again, once you allow simming ahead who sets those limits?

Isn't the simplest and easiest thing to do is what leagues do now? IE any simulating ahead is considered cheating and keep the field level for everyone? No exceptions, no excuses.

Look at baseball and corked bats as an example. I've heard, of course, people argue it helps the batter. I've heard it makes no difference. I've heard some argue it hurts the batter. I haven't heard there is definitive proof of any of these theories (someone can correct me if that's wrong). But for the sake of argument say none of the above can be proved shouldn't baseball allow corked bats? Or isn't it just simpler to have a no exceptions rule that prohibits them?

Yeah I gots no time to sim 5 seasons really quick to analyze two players lol.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jDaveMc1984

Yeah I gots no time to sim 5 seasons really quick to analyze two players lol.

You are not the only owner. If you are allowed to sim then so are the others. You have already stated that you have no problem with them doing so.

So, what is the limit on seasons simulated and who sets it? How do they come up with that number?

In the end you have a whole thread here and obviously your former league telling you that you are wrong. Accept it is unacceptable and move on

[jDaveMc1984]

Originally Posted by Sweed

You are not the only owner. If you are allowed to sim then so are the others. You have already stated that you have no problem with them doing so.

So, what is the limit on seasons simulated and who sets it? How do they come up with that number?

In the end you have a whole thread here and obviously your former league telling you that you are wrong. Accept it is unacceptable and move on 1:

You have a great point, and I never really saw an issue with it until now. Honestly I just guess I trusted people to be honorable with it, but obviously that's a bit naive.

Lesson learned on my part

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[NoOne]

since you are talking long-term strategy and thinking, you could just make a league with similar settings with a new set of players and meet the same goals without blurring any line of cheating. in the long-term the specific players in the league at any particular time is inconsequential, if using a proper sample size. so, you don't need to start with the same players to do the things you intimated above.

the only cheating would be short-term and player ratings (ability, personality, coaches whatever) related.

no 2 sims are the same, but the first 1, 3, 10 years are definitely too predictive that any info you see would definitely give you an advantage in an online league. simming out 30 years to turn over the MiL/MLB would be the same as what i suggested above. (obviously not suggesting that... )

i'm all for doing whatever you want on the side to learn the ins and outs of the game. this is a video game. that's how you do it. if i played in a competitive league i'd have cheatsheets for all sorts of reference material. as of now i'm happy winging it and relying on memory for things like positional fatigue. i can't say exactly how many pitches before a pitcher with X velocity and Y stamina can throw before being tired... i do know if a knuckleball is there, possibly needs to be of certain quality, they can throw more for that same stamina... these types of nuances can be learned on the side without cheating and it is helpful. learning the clockwork provides potential competitive advantages.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by jDaveMc1984

You have a great point, and I never really saw an issue with it until now. Honestly I just guess I trusted people to be honorable with it, but obviously that's a bit naive.

Lesson learned on my part

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I wish this was true. Years ago I guess I was a bit naive too because I never imagined people couldn't be trusted playing a game that should be for fun. Years on the web have shown me how wrong I was

[Statsman1]

I'm sure lots of actual teams use whatever they can to simulate or model predicted / expected behavior and results, but I doubt they'd admit they made any big, bold decisions based on those simulations. I would like to think that they make decisions based on exactly those things - what they expect a guy to do in the future.

I just don't ever expect to hear a GM say they made an unexpected FA signing because "this guy becomes a BEAST next year, according to OOTP17."

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Statsman1

I'm sure lots of actual teams use whatever they can to simulate or model predicted / expected behavior and results, but I doubt they'd admit they made any big, bold decisions based on those simulations. I would like to think that they make decisions based on exactly those things - what they expect a guy to do in the future.

I just don't ever expect to hear a GM say they made an unexpected FA signing because "this guy becomes a BEAST next year, according to OOTP17."

if you restart the 2016 season over a few times (or the year of ootp version), you definitely learn some very very useful things. this is the exact same thing as what the op describes doing. I'm assuming this is a common thing each version for many people. there should be numerous parallels drawn each time you restart. you will definitely make a major decision involving things you gleaned while doing this.

I would use a long-term sim to hone an optimum coach and individual player strategies for AI simulation - since you don't get to play out games in an online league. i just made a post about how doing the individual palyers as well as the coach strat will add ~1-5 games a year in wins. (the +1-5 was from doing the player strats, my coach was already setup previously, then results improved relative to the Pyt +/- estimate. your coach's strategy may affect that, of course. mine was based on previous years that worked well (+3-4/year for 100years with *few negatives* is my version of "worked well"))

you can't assume it all works the same, of course. you are only thinking of a TCR change in your example - which is completely unpredictable, hence the use of random in the name... most other factors that affect change are a bit more consistent and predictable - especially in the short-term.

[Cy Young]

Originally Posted by GoPedro99

it is cheating solely because you could, not that you necessarily would, but you could easily gain access to the true player ratings.

Originally Posted by Sweed

It is cheating, there is no other answer.

And this guy is back in the NOBA League with his old team and even made a Trade tonight...it made me sick how he was acting like nothing even happened and he is still not willing to admit that this is a form of cheating regardless of what his intentions were...he is calling it a mistake in judgement and being impatient.
Its one excuse after another...and he may be a nice guy but u cant call cheating something else just because its sexier.

Im sure his defense will be to attack me instead of owning up to what he did. He will call me a hot head and say i blew my stack and over reacted, but i watched and waited for 2 days before saying a word about it.
His flip teenage attitude set me off so i did explode and dropped the league. I guess when i see a cheater maybe i do tend to blow my stack and over react...if its even possible to OVER react to a cheater.

The first mention of him coming back was on Thursday and had a 1 yr suspension before he could resume as a GM...ironically it was me that said that was probably over kill...if you're gonna bring him back then just bring him back now.

Maybe some day this guy will grow up and learn how to take responsibility for what he did...even if it is as bad as cheating in an online fake baseball league.